Yes, try to get to a developed country that has not recognized the value of universal health care and you might wind up like the subject of this New Yorker piece.Quote:
Originally Posted by try2bfrugal
Printable View
Yes, try to get to a developed country that has not recognized the value of universal health care and you might wind up like the subject of this New Yorker piece.Quote:
Originally Posted by try2bfrugal
Too funny. Thanks for posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Florence
Quote:
Originally Posted by try2bfrugal
The Human Development Index has the US as #3 in the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...elopment_Index
Gallup says the tops in happiness are Panama, Paraguay and El Salvador: http://www.gallup.com/poll/159254/la...e-world.aspx#2
So I don't know what you really get from all that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
Actually, the Gallup poll measured positive attitude. That's different from happiness.
The Better Life Index has 13 countries ahead of the U.S. in life satisfaction -Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/t...-satisfaction/
The World Happiness Report 2013 didn't rank the U.S. in the top ten overall -
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3894041.html
Overall the U.S. was ranked 17th -
http://cir.ca/news/world-happiness-report-2013
The countries with the strongest social support programs tend to rank very high on most life satisfaction / happiness surveys. Look at where countries like Sweden and Norway rank. They are always at the the top of most of these surveys. In the 2013 Happiness Survey the top countries were Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Sweden. And they all have strong social support programs including some type of government supported, affordable health care.
On the Human Development Index, Australia and Norway rank higher than the U.S. and they have some form of universal health care, plus both countries are known for having minimum wage jobs people can actually live off on. Strong social service programs are not impediments to healthy economies.
Seriously? You ask what's holding me back?Quote:
Originally Posted by dmc
Certainly I'm nothing special and I'm not being singled out. What's holding me back is what's holding most people back these days. Rapidly rising prices, stagnant wages, health care spiraling out of control - though I have a fix for that one by going to Mexico as I have posted many times - and hopefully the ACA will slow down price increases but that remains to be seen. That fact that the money is sifting up to the top and the rest of us are getting less and less of the scraps. The fact that the fabled upward mobility of the US is now so non-existent for most of us that Denmark, a country with very high taxes that I very much approve of, has more upward mobility than the US does. As does Canada if you can handle the climate there. Certainly someone as knowledgeable as yourself - and there is no sarcasm here, you do seem very well read and intelligent - knows the truth of what I have posted here. Maybe you are at the top, I don't know? But if you are not, how could you not know this and not see this around you? Basically, what holds me back as is what America has become, just as this is what holds most of us back today. Rob
I was twelve when I understood about social classes and the basics of how they work in America. No one had to tell me anything - growing up poor yet being somewhat intelligent I was able to figure this out on my own. I bet you never ran across another 13 year old who would spend time at the library - this was in the days before the Internet - spending hours doing research comparison shopping their citizenship against other countries. But yes, I was thirteen when I started doing this. This is not a function of intelligence, just a function of seeing things with no loyalty and being able to cut through all the BS to what's at the core. Unfortunately in some ways I have been cursed with this ability, it's not the most pleasant thing to have, trust me on this. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
Not exactly. And they frame the questions like this because asking are you "happy" is pretty meaningless. It's the same methodology used in some of the other indexes mentioned above.Quote:
Originally Posted by peggy
This illustrates the fallacy of these types of studies. Gallup measured positive feelings. I don't know how you separate disposition from circumstance. So you can people who objectively have it good but have a culture of cynicism rate low or people who have it bad vice versa. It illustrates my point that you have to take happiness surveys with a big big grain of salt.Quote:
Gallup measured positive emotions in 148 countries and areas in 2011 using five questions. These questions ask people whether they experienced a lot of enjoyment the day before the survey and whether they felt respected, well-rested, laughed and smiled a lot, and did or learned something interesting.
The average percentage of respondents worldwide who said "yes" to these five questions reflects a relatively upbeat world. Gallup found that 85% of adults worldwide felt treated with respect all day, 72% smiled and laughed a lot, 73% felt enjoyment a lot of the day, and 72% felt well-rested. The only emotion that less than half of people worldwide reported experiencing was getting to learn or do something interesting the previous day, at 43%. Despite many global challenges, people worldwide are experiencing many positive emotions.
Especially when you are a commodities economy in a commodities boom. The margin of error on these things is huge, particularly when you add self reported subjective factors. You are kidding yourself if you think they prove any thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by try2bfrugal
Yep, it's just The Man keeping you down. If you told me you studied hard, got a scholarship to college, majored in electrical engineering with honors and no one would hire you because you grew up in the wrong neighborhood I could maybe see your point. Getting an early start in making excuses isn't as persuasive.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
From what I understand, engineers can't find work these days either as this is getting offshored now, too. Also I did not get an early start in making excuses - I luckily got an early start in questioning everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, and had an early start in seeing through things with no loyalty whatsoever. I'm probably the worst kind of citizen America could have, worse than even a terrorist - I ask the hard questions and spare no person or institution. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
I think the thing to keep in mind is that some form of universal health care is the norm in almost all developed countries, and not some sure to fail social experiment leads will lead us all down a path of hell fire, misery, evilness and economic collapse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
No one else is moving to the failed model of health care in the U.S. We're finally starting to catch up to the rest of the developed world by moving towards affordable health care for all.
I don't know what your goal is here. I'll repeat it AGAIN- I'm on record supporting universal single payer. I don't know why you can't take yes for an answer. If you feel you need to argue that you need to direct your points to someone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by try2bfrugal
Great. What was your answer when you asked yourself why you ended up being a middle aged man doing transient menial labor? What was your career or occupational training that proved so fruitless and how did you isolate class as the objective cause of your economic under achievement.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
I don't know what your point is in being a bully. Not cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
I don't know what your point is acting like Rob is a little kid or an idiot. He's done a good job of explaining his current economic situation. He has not done a good job of explaining why it's someone else's fault. He's a big boy, by his own admission he likes to deal with the hard questions. So there's one on the table. Just because he works as a waiter doesn't mean he needs some smarty pants sheltering him. Give him some credit, we don't need the prejudice of low expectations seeping in here.Quote:
Originally Posted by try2bfrugal
And it's long, long, long overdue too! RobQuote:
Originally Posted by try2bfrugal
Thanks! I thought that last statement of Yossarian's crossed the line, too. I think I'll just back off now so it does not escalate. It would not be cool for me as a moderator to participate in escalation. And I don't think to continue on this way is going to shed any light on this topic, which was my experiences with signing up on the health exchange in Arizona. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by try2bfrugal
Back to the topic if I may - today I once again tried twice to sign up on the health exchange in Arizona. Arizona is one of the states that has opted to expand Medicaid but also opted to let the Feds do the exchange. So far I am not able to get onto the exchange as there seem to be too many people all wanting to sign up at once - can you blame them? I am just going to be patient and one of these days I will be able to get through. I think I read that if you are signed up by 12/15, coverage is supposed to begin next January 1st. I will post more as I have more experiences with the exchange and anyone else is welcome of course to post their experiences, too. Rob
I can't sign up either. I got less far into the process today that I did yesterday. Today I couldn't even get to the rates screen.
You have gotten further than I have.....I have only been able to set up an account and have since not been able to get further.....I'm going to be patient though and not knock it - who knows many other hundreds of thousands of people are out there right now trying to sign up at 8:52 PM as I type this? RobQuote:
Originally Posted by try2bfrugal
Here's an update on my experience with ObamaCare. I found out there is a toll free # you can call to do an over the phone application which I just did. I am supposed to find out what I qualify for - probably Medicaid - by December 1st. I am not worried about identity theft even though I gave my SS# out over the phone as due to an identity theft issue last year I am frozen with the 3 credit reporting agencies - something I am more and more glad for. So we'll see how this goes, I'm done for now with dealing with the online glitches it looks like. Rob
I have never understood this phrase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
"Arizona is one of the states that has opted to expand Medicaid but also opted to let the Feds do the exchange."
Rob - I'm thinking this was the simplest, most efficient way to get this done in AZ. I'm interested in your thoughts on that idea ...
That's cool, but you were the person who introduced class into this discussion. You were the person who said your understanding of class was the result of your ability to deal with hard questions. The only line we are trying to cross is the one between vague insinuations and some actual explanation. So for now I guess we'll just be left The Man keeping you down as your explanation. Rock on.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
Did you have to hold a long time to get through to one of the phone reps? I still haven't tried the website or phone.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
No, amazingly I was on hold for less than two minutes.....but it was after 10PM, so maybe that had something to do with it. I'm thinking this is a good way to go.....RobQuote:
Originally Posted by Float On
My thoughts.....lol....you asked for it...J/K. Seriously. I am still amazed that Jan Brewer not only championed Medicaid expansion but also stood up to members of her own party in doing so.....I consider this a class act and find myself having respect for her even though she has since made a few decisions I am two thumbs down on - she did tackle the big one and that's what matters to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammy
I think she was right too in how she marketed the expansion - doing the math, it is not wise to not let this huge inflow of an estimated 1.6 billion federal dollars into the state in the first year, creating more health care jobs and increasing the amount of state tax revenue due to more jobs, some of which actually pay enough to be worth your time to do. She also stated that if Arizona didn't sign up for this money via expansion, it would just go to some other state. Gotta say I have respect for people who can do the math and go against the grain of their party when it's so practical to do so.
I also think she was wise to let the Feds do the exchange. This way if there are any frustrations with glitches in the system or difficulties at all in folks getting enrolled, the fallout will not visit her office at the State Capitol. She can just wag her finger in the face of reporters and place the blame on the Feds, but still get credit for expanding Medicaid in the state. Wise on her part I think.....Though I'd much rather Arizona had developed it's own exchange, I think how she handled this was politically wise for her and maybe even got her the support of the few Republicans that stood up with her to expand Medicaid.
At any rate, I have now applied via the phone for coverage and am waiting for mail to arrive with my results. It's looking very much like Medicaid at least to start until such a date as my income increases. Rob
Came back to add - this is why I stay in Arizona, or at least one of the big reasons I do. This state is so funky - it can get liberal on you out of nowhere and completely blow you away, and then a week later it resembles the media stereotype for a bit. Never a dull moment in Arizona politically - at least not for very long.
Today, a coworker who is a conservative Republican came to me about a concern about his daughter possibly losing her job. She has cancer and he is afraid she will be denied insurance when she gets another job or tries to get her own insurance. I printed up a fact sheet that showed because of the ACA, she can't be denied coverage or charged higher prices for premiums.
Him: "But they're about to overturn that, aren't they?"
Me: "No, Obama and the Senate won't let that happen."
Him: "Good. Well, thanks. That's a load off my mind."
Because my grown kids, wife, and I already each have excellent insurance coverage, I haven't been been paying much attention to the bruhaha. This was my first experience with recent events. I'm glad it is going to take care of his daughter, even though he has been against it from the beginning.
I'm convinced a lot of people are going to find out they like it once they get to know it. There is a popular jpg floating around Facebook of the curmudgeon in Green Eggs and Ham about to finally take a bite of the egg with the caption "I do not like it here or there, I do not like Obamacare".
Only they forget how that story ends. After he takes that bite, he finishes up by saying, "I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you. Thank you, Sam I Am."
Not only is their little picture likely true in the present sense, it is also quite prophetic.
And I think that is exactly why there is such a monumental push to try to derail it.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Storyteller
How I learned to stop worrying and love the insurance companies, I guess.
(well those are the dogs you lie down with at the end of the day).
Thanks Rob. I've lived here almost 4 years. Still getting used to the state in all of its contradictions. :) libertarian, conservative, wild west, and eady going south with a tiny liberal belly button in the middle. Ha.
Something I like about Arizona is that you can go to Kingman, which is very conservative, or you can go to Bisbee, which is extremely liberal. You can go to Tuscon which is basically Portland, OR, set in the desert (but without the incredible mass transit), or you can go to Phoenix which is an overgrown conservative cowtown kind of unsure of it's identity since so much liberal money has moved in over the past 20 years. Not only can you have all different kinds of climates, you can have all different kinds of thinking, too. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by Tammy