I don't know. Effective leadership that can deescalate instead of antagonize. What do you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
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I don't know. Effective leadership that can deescalate instead of antagonize. What do you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Logistically, how do you round up and deport 3,000,000 people in a manner you would find ethical and legal? I'm thinking that ICE and Customs & Border Patrol officers haven't changed their routines much between then and now, other than now making efforts to protect themselves and their families from a politically charged resistance who could find no reason to pay attention earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
I think it definitely depends on who's in charge. Politically, sometimes following the law is ok, sometimes it's not. I think it depends upon whether or not you think the person in charge is a light-bringer or Hitler incarnate. Perspective is everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
Well, my AI says the difference in policies is that Obama deportations focused on serious criminals, recent border crossings, and immediate threats to national security and Trump is deporting any unauthorized immigrant regardless of their ties to the US.
One can assume the latter is more likely to cause bigger resistance by breaking up honest families who have been here for decades, even using elementary schools are a place to round up folks. Sending them to bizarre prisons doesn't help.
I was also wondering how that ICE agent was able to concentrate on holding up his cell phone and focusing on recording, while at the same time trying to defuse or understand a situation and possibly use a deadly weapon. Don't they have body cams for that? Is the DOJ filtering out what they release.
Well, I won’t argue with that goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
ah, tell me then what role Renée was playing in that protest. How did she come to be there. What was her goal in being there. And etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
I think the cell phone recording is pretty much standard operating procedure to document people and vehicles in a manner that can be quickly and easily retrieved when needed. I don't think the thought of using a deadly weapon came to mind for the officer until the moment that vehicle accelerated towards him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
I didn't know that. At least in the news I've not noticed police holding up cell phones, but it must happen. I was also wondering if ICE agents are required to have body cams and if we will ever see that if they had them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
My evening news commentary said that Trump supporters could watch all the videos and say self defense and dems could watch the same videos and say otherwise and that it's the way the mind works. It's not obvious either way to me.
Brother was a border patrol officer on the Arizona border for many years. Said ICE used to be a very low key operation - mostly undercover working with various parties to apprehend illegal immigrants. He said he does not recognize or believe that its current behavior is acceptable or normal.
So, I surprised myself by actually considering that if anything happened to Donald Trump we might actually be in a WORSE way with J.D.Vance. He is young and inexperienced and Steven Miller and others would make him their puppet.
That’s what you get for thinking. Do you remember SEEING masked, plain-clothed goons stuffing random people in unmarked vehicles during the Obama administration? Of course not! We are seeing this now daily. The massive amounts of ICE are trained for border patrol… not as police. It is obvious they are not trained for what they have been thrown into and it shows. I’ll take Obama immigration any day over the current regime’s ballastic approach. Rogar’s post above more eloquently explained it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Perspective is not everything! The results of leadership’s actions tell all. Obama’s administration deported massive amounts of people and did not have protesters in the streets unlike the current regime where supposed ICE agents are killing people in the streets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
You are a big girl and should be able to figure it out. If I lived anywhere near that area I also would be out protesting the gestapo infiltrating and rounding up my neighbors! This tactic is reminiscent of Hitler Germany hunting for Jews! Wasn’t trump’s claim to just target the worst of the worst? Now, randomly people are being picked up. The worst of the worst… my ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
And, trump is experienced and not a puppet? trump is even shown sleeping at meetings! Why is he not called “sleepy d”?Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
regardless of the outcome, I'd still like to see Trump eating a lot more saturated fatty red meats, bacon, and cheeses as per the new food pyramid. J.D. always comes across as a very nasty person and it's no wonder the pope died the day after his visit, but I don't think he could carry the clout that Trump has to intimidate and control. How a whacko like Miller wormed his way into political leadership is beyond me.Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
I've not seen anything in the news. I was anticipated a Trump set back, which is always nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd
Didn't happen yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
Sure it is. I'm currently sitting in the basin of the second largest canyon in the country, being visited by cute little roadrunners and enjoying life without a care in the world. If you're in the area, stop by and I'll show you how the principle works.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net...8w&oe=69687E56
https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net...Ng&oe=69686FE1
A picture DH took of a roadrunner here is the screensaver on our computer. However, the perspective you have unfortunately is momentary. Enjoy it!
I took some time to answer this question; I needed to review sources I’ve been consuming since it all can glom together in my mindQuote:
Originally Posted by Tybee
Currently I think
- René Good was sympathetic to the goals of organizations that exist to disrupt ICE. She and wife followed at least one social media account of a Minneapolis ICE monitoring group. (Inside Edition report) Her wife Rebecca said in an interview released yesterday ( multiple sources) that they “stopped to support neighbors” in the ICE protest.
- Renée Goode parked her maroon colored SUV at an angle to somehow participate in an ICE disruption exercise. The car was not parked on the side of the street. The car was stopped in a place that disrupted traffic. (Videos)
- ICE agents gave her a lawful order to get out of her car. She chose not to do that. ( videos)
- There MAY have been conflicting orders from ICE where someone indicated she should move her car ( videos)
- Renee drove her car forward where an ice agent stood and the car hit him; ( Officer Ross’ phone video) she MAY not have intended to hit him ( conjecture)
- ICE agent Ross used regrettable and unnecessary force in this situation to shoot her (conjecture)
- ICE agent Ross viewed Renee Good’s vehicle as a deadly weapon ( conjecture)
- Renee Good’s car hit ICE agent Ross (Ross video)
- ICE agent Ross acted lawfully if regrettably and did not use the highest and best option he was trained for which would’ve been to not shoot the driver of this car ( conjecture)
There is a whole lot else that is rumor and conjecture, and some of that is that she was an active member of one of these ICE disruptor groups. But I wasn’t able to confirm that in any of the sources that I looked at carefully today. More may be revealed later.
I really wanted to know what the ICE protestors were “supposed” to do, that is if they’ve been trained, when they encounter a lawful order from ICE agents. It is clear that Rebecca and her wife blew off ICE commands and Rebecca Good even taunted agents.
I see that in a lot of law-enforcement videos of sovereign citizens in traffic stops. These folks don’t think they need to pay attention to law-enforcement. They find out otherwise
In any videos I saw the ICE agent was not struck! I hope the word continues to go out to avoid ICE. They obviously are not trained to handle situations and cause more chaos than is necessary!
I reasonable summation. I just assume her training or group participation included some encouragement toward non-violence (?) as opposed to a radical domestic terrorist who weaponized her car. Peaceful disobedience.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
I was wondering. I've watched he famous officer video a couple of times. I've not seen any part of the car striking and any part of the officer. It just goes blurry and some unidentified noises and anything else seems to be by inference. Was that his cell phone that was hit or dropped when he wen for his gun. I must be missing something, as they are portraying that as damning evidence of self-protection. All I got was that his cell may have hit the car and I'm not sure about that.
I'd think proper investigation would ask where his cell phone was during all of this? Was it always in his hand? Was he holding it when he fired. Or was it attached to his uniform somewhere? We may never know.
This is all true. I think it’s reasonable to assume from the chaos of John Ross’s phone video that he was hit by Renee’s car. However, as you point out, that is “assumption.”Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
there is another video in the sea of videos that show he was hit, clipped, brushed,touched, kissed (whatever word you want to use) by her car.
I also think that questioning the John Ross video is a degree of skepticism not shown to anything from the other political side, but still, bottom line, I see you may be right. I don’t think so, though;)
I could go 50/50 on that. I'm sure the FBI investigation would analyze the car for fabric fiber left from impact or even some sort of paint residue on his clothing. And do a thorough review of the video. Maybe a reenactment of what a reasonable person would do with a cell phone in one hand while shooting someone. Was the video cropped, magnified or otherwise altered to make the car seem cloer that it was? Ha.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
I'm unaware other other videos actually showing contact between the car and the officer.
The bottom line is more like whether the officer felt his life was in danger, regardless. Or if it was a reckless, hate, or negligent act (i.e., the end of the video, "F...ing B...ch). But the news sure seemed to hve jumped on the one video to make unquestioned conclusions.
this is so interesting and it’s such a good illustration as to why a video alone in a court of law is not uncontroversial evidence. It just doesn’t suffice because people see it and make their own interpretation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
what difference would it make to you if there was forensic evidence that the automobile did hit the officer? I don’t mean this in a snarky way, I want to know how that changes your opinion on anything or does it?
The point is not so much the specific evidence, but conducing a thorough investigation of all the evidence. In a court of law, would the video be used as evidence and how would that differ from material evidence in relevance. Like I said, I think the bottom line is how the officer may have felt his life in danger. or if he acted negligently, out of anger, or recklessly. The proximity of the car to his body or striking such may or may not indicate that. At least that seems to be the public opinions and news interpretations of the intense scrutiny of the various videos.
I think that many have jumped to potentially false conclusion based on the video that may not be correct and people should know. Since this probably won't go to any sort of legal trail or unbiased legal review, none of the evidence matters, really. And in light of the veracity of the current administration and the limited access to the investigation, I could expect evidence could be altered anyway. I already have some suspicion that the video could have been altered to favor opinions.
I wish we could treat him to several "Almighty Cheesus Burgers" including the bacon and egg add-on. (Menu courtesy of the Great Lost Bear in Portland, ME).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
Attachment 6695
Ha. I think he might like the bacon cheddar burger with double fries and a large pepsi.
Fries must be cooked in lard, there is no other way to get that rich crispyness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
Asshole trump is insisting the US take Greenland by force, if needed. he is talking of force in Iran and sending masked thugs to round up people in Minneapolis… to name just a few of the ludicrous atrocities he’s committing. The only positive is that the courts are daily negating his unlawful attempts to make life even worse for the masses.
You know we could have an awful lot of interesting discussion regarding those three claims. Are you up for it?Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
No. There is NO justification!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
It is interesting to note though a few republicans are finally speaking out against the regime and IL’s many timed mentioned podcaster, Joe Rogan, referring to ICE as the gestapo. There is hope yet!
I wonder since so many of the Federal Prosecutors resigned rather than take up investigations into the mother of three and her partner if they will find some sell out legal hacks like has been done in the past, or if they will just drop it. Or maybe there are some prosecutors left?
It seems like things seem to drag out in the courts forever, but there appears to be several Tump rebukes in the works. Keely sue Hegseth, the Clintons refuse the Congressional subpoena (theiur letter was interesting), the Supreme Court ruling on tariffs, the Hegseth investigation into shooting the boat survivors, and the demands for the Epstein files release. The DOJ continues to find some smoke screen to delay the release of all relevant Epstein files, which make things appear even more suspicious. And I'm not so sure Venezuela/Greenland talk and others are a distraction to divert the public eyes from the case and other legalities and transgressions. I've read thea the suit of the Minneapolis Mayor against the Trum p administration is hopeless. It will probably take a few more GOPers to flip before things like the impeachment of Noem stick. The Jack Smith testimony was conveniently released around New Year's day celebrations. I wonder if it's the end of that or if more is coming.
Here in Colorado, they opened up bidding for 20,000 acres of BLM land for oil and gas leases and no one bid. I sort of doubt big oil wants to invest capitol in new operations here and maybe abroad in low quality or hard to get at oil when the next administration could get back on the EV/green energy bandwagon and when gas prices are so low. There have been reversals of Trumps block on wind energy. I've lost track of the lawsuit to keep the big NOAA weather monitoring facility open.
And Tina Peters is still in prison.
Rogan is a creature of the Right only in the minds of the Twitter universe.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
We have been told by government officials that ICE is coming this week to my children's neighborhood. Any ideas about how to keep the grandchildren safe on their way to school--they either walk or are dropped off if it is too cold to walk.
Wired just had an article on this. Hope you can read it.
https://www.wired.com/story/what-to-...-neighborhood/
It's crazy. We have good friends up here in Vermont who have two twins they adopted from Nigeria when they were babies. They're in their early teens now. Their lawyer told my friends not to leave the country with their children because they may not be permitted back. This family is as white American bread as you can get, but their legally adopted children are Black.
On another "close to home" moment, I picked up BIL from the hospital, where he was recovering from a congestive heart failure exacerbation, and the nurse started telling him about a housing program he might be eligible for, but then she stopped herself--oh, well, maybe not these days. So I asked her, "are you seeing the impact of the new policies related to social services up here in Vermont?" And she said. "Yes. Just today. It was heartbreaking" (I guess she had a patient who will be much worse off now that they are suddenly ineligible for a benefit that would have helped them.)
Politically speaking (and personally speaking too), this year feels like it has lasted forever. And musing that we have 3 more years of this mayhem is really depressing. I'm hopeful the midterms will stem the tide a little.
I ‘m sorry to hear this. I feel your anguish! My GD is in Minneapolis … 4 blocks from the Renee Good murder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tybee
Thank you. That's a really good article, Tradd, will pass it on to my son. Thank you all for your emotional support, I really need it now.
concluding paragraph:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd
“The goal is to be an observer and to document what is happening,” says Nathan-Pineau of the Immigrant Legal Resource Center. “The goal is not to go and try to intervene in the law enforcement action.”
Concerned, observant, involved citizenry = a good thing
Obstructive, belligerent, vigilante citizenry = not a good thing