Printable View
I just wonder if all those being rounded up are truly on a list to be taken? It certainly looks as if quotas and masks are not the sign of researched targeting. Ice agents appear to be grabbing up people, showing no just cause, no warrants, no paperwork signed by a judge that determines they need taken up. I am also concerned as to what is happening once they are in custody. The anger shown in every video, the language, lead me to believe those taken are not treated as they should be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nswef
This concerns me as well. Sure, ICE quotas may be in place and if a measurable number of US citizens and immigrants here legally are pulled into that group, and they are not processed and released quickly, that is a problem of major proportion.
My partner teaches in a public elementary school on the mainland, in the Skagit Valley. It is a very cool dual-language school - the children receive half their instruction during the day in Spanish, half the day in English. Teachers teach as pairs - one doing the Spanish, one doing English, covering two classrooms. The children swap classrooms during the middle of the day. My partner teaches the Spanish half of the paired classroom, mostly covering science and math and some literacy skills.
Families have to choose to send their children to this program, which starts at kindergarten. The demographics of the families are all over the map, economically, and ethnically.
The Skagit Valley is ~20% Hispanic, 3% Asian, 3% First Nations, 1% African-American. Significant Hispanic population began settling here in the 1920s, expanding in the 1940s, and most of the Hispanic population has been here for ages, and are citizens.
Nonetheless, my partner's elementary school is feeling ICE presence, and it is disrupting the educational process. Families are afraid to show up for parent-teacher conferences. Parents doing drop-off/pick-up are being forced to interact with ICE, and this seems to be causing lower attendance from the "people who have brown skin" community. My partner was accosted once in the parking lot for simply speaking Spanish with a co-worker, though my partner is a US citizen, and her family came here from Wales in the 1700s, and she appears about as white as you can get, though is often mistaken for being from Argentina, probably due to her accent. ICE showed up at the high-school graduation event to stake out the event/parking lot, which was sort of hilarious as they showed up at the wrong address.
In my own life, I'm getting stopped *much* more frequently when traveling from island to island in small boats. Our local volunteer water taxi service that springs into action when the state ferry service is disrupted is being stopped constantly, and sometimes detentions of community members have occurred. Many of the detentions were of people with a legal right to be in the USA. Hard to explain that "Dad got snatched off the boat, they'll probably spring him...sometime" to the kids at home.
Another effect of the current nonsense is that we all had a very cooperative relationship with the local Coast Guard units, who helped us with all sorts of things. They often stop in at several of the stores along waterfronts to grab their lunches. Since they've been involved in multi-agency activities the past year, they have gone from "heroes to zeroes" in the eyes of most of the local community, and a large chunk of our quite active Coast Guard Auxiliary unit has resigned.
Sad times.
This. Is. Not. Normal.
Bae, I sub at a school much like, almost exactly like, your partner's. 42% Latino student population, and we are experiencing much of the same. I hear Seattle is noting higher ICE presence this week.
Colorado has a sizable Hispanic population, especially in the south. There have been a few ICE roundups of most likely gangsters in bad areas, but I've not seen much evidence of a big ICE presence and disruptions like those mentioned. Maybe it's coming. Friends went to a rally/protest last week and said the turnout was rather anemic. Most of Trump's revenge tour here has been around the imprisonment of Tina Peters.
I wonder about this too as not much is out there other than "detention" centers.Quote:
I am also concerned as to what is happening once they are in custody
My mother-in-law and father-in-law were both cultural anthropologists, out of Colorado College. They often studied Hispanic settlements that pre-existed the establishment of the USA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
The village my FIL worked with the most was way up in the hills, and not a word of English was spoken there the times I visited over the decades. I suspect everyone there was a citizen.
My MIL worked for decades using her research to return land use rights to the peoples of the San Luis Valley, which had been cruelly taken by the wealthy Anglo immigrants to the region. She did similar things for the Native American peoples of the region - the Navajo Nation sent a delegation to her funeral, and there is a plaque honoring her work in the National Museum of the American Indian in DC, up near the treaty room exhibit. There's another similar plaque and display in the Palace of The Governors in Santa Fe.
Possibly of interest:Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkytoe
https://truthout.org/articles/deaths...-prison-walls/
Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
We could become that site, but I don't think anyone's interested. :(
:)oh agreed, this is not the place.�� :~)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
In talking with my son in Minneapolis, ICE has blocked off streets and go down the streets enmasse and round up whoever they find. Many legal citizens are carted off and later released. That is why I keep referring to the gestapo or secret police. This is the same format as how they rounded up the jews. It is no wonder people are upset and want ICE out. I would be out in the streets too under these conditions. It shouldn’t matter what city in the US this happens in! This is just WRONG!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
That's pretty neat. I am no stranger to the San Luis Valley and know of places where Hispanic communities were there way before us gringos. There are also a lot of Japanese farmers who came there in the early 1900's for cheap land and opportunity. If you have ever seen the movie, "The Milagro Beanfield War", it is about a young white sociologist who moves from the east coast to a little remote village in northern New Mexico to study their culture, maybe in the 70's. Redford was a little heavy handed with his Hollywood license, but I've had work assignments there and it was a fairly accurate portrayal, except every one spoke Spanish and maybe a little like your in laws experienced. And I felt about out of place as Herbie the sociologist. That was 30 or so years ago. I suspect the internet and cell phones and maybe drugs have changed that culture significantly, but I think those little isolated Hispanic towns or villages were not too much changed well into the 20th century..Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
Fort Garland in the SLV once displayed the life history and collection of Kit Carson, but but recently has been changed to tell the history of the enslavement of the Dine women and children at a near-by Indian agency and also a history of the Buffalo soldiers in the region, and I hope it's under the radar for Trump and Stephen Miller.
Land ownership in Greenland is unique. The way I get it, all the land belongs to the government. People own their residential buildings and businesses, but lease or are allowed the land and do not own it. I assume mineral rights are similar. Where here, a landowner may also own the mineral rights beneath his land, in Greenland I'm guessing the government that owns the land owns the mineral rights. I don't picture many opportunities for golf resorts, though. Military occupation to insure national security by land ownership is basically a fabrication.
So, do these second hand reports of legal citizens being carted off and later released consist of protestors being arrested and taken to local police for processing but released due to sanctuary city policies of not helping or backing up federal officers or are they just random folks who may look or act like an illegal alien, whatever that means?Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
It also does matter in what city these things happen in because certain sanctuary cities or states will not allow their law enforcement and judicial officials to cooperate with immigration officers which leaves those officers dependent on going out into wanted persons neighborhoods to find them. In non-sanctuary cities/states local officials can and do simply notify immigration officers when an illegal alien is being released from jail or allowed to leave court so that they can be picked up and processed by federal officials in a controlled environment. Which of those situations apply to your son's neighborhood?
During the Mike Brown/Ferguson riots here it was a badge of honor for protestors to be arrested.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Our City’s Aldermen just could not drive out to that suburb fast enough to get themselves into a paddy wagon, all the better if news media had shots of them in that compromised position.
More than one local politician used their arrest as a badge of pride in their campaigns for re-election.
LOL, fits right in with my long time belief that most politicians are self-serving idiots and most media coverage is nothing but entertainment for the perpetually outraged. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
I've seen speculation that the Supreme Court could rule on tariffs as soon as next week. That cold change a lot of things, including Trump's hold on the EU. Or not.
I wasn’t there so can’t answer these questions. The POINT is these people should not have been rounded up AT ALL!The count I heard recently from news reports is 3,000 people were grabbed in Minneapolis. This is VERY concerning that people, including children, are being rounding up like cattle and sent to ? I can see investigations where the worse of the worse are detained but not willy nilly absconding of people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Alan, We should all be OUTRAGED that this is happening!
Here is one account and I can't believe it's an isolated one.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...hip-rcna254247
IMHO, when people Joe Rogan is complaining about "Gestapo sh*t" we can assume this is a bipartisan affront to all.
Rogan is a populist. He’s no Republican or conservative.Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
That said, no, we do not like “Gestapo “tactics if that’s what really is happening.
I guess you all preferred the kinder, general deportation program headed by Tom Homan when he worked for Barack Obama. Twice as many were deported in Obama’s first year than during Trump’s first year. I wonder what Donald would say about that? Ha ha he would not like that number comparison.
Tom Homan is now the devil but is not someone we heard about on these boards way back in those years of Obama presidency. Partisan much?
Deportation during the halcyon Obama years did not require President Obama to grapple with sanctuary cities and sanctuary states that refused to cooperate with federal law enforcement. That’s back when people were more sane and we understood that an open border is not a good thing, immigration law needs enforcement.
I asked AI why we didn't hear more about Obama's deportations and they said:Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
We didn't hear more about Obama's deportations because his administration shifted focus to interior removals of criminals/recent crossers, reducing large-scale raids, and implemented policies like DACA, while border removals remained high, creating confusion; however, critics argued his administration still deported many non-criminals and that priorities weren't always met, but the narrative emphasized "humane" enforcement and targeted threats over the sheer numbers.
Key Reasons for Less Focus on Deportations
Shift in Enforcement Priorities: The administration prioritized removing national security threats, recent border crossers, and serious criminals, reducing large-scale workplace raids common under Bush and focusing on interior enforcement, though results were mixed.
"Humane" Enforcement Narrative: Obama aimed to make enforcement more "humane," focusing on felons rather than families, which became the public story, despite reports of continued harshness.
DACA & Prosecutorial Discretion: Programs like Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) offered temporary relief, creating a perception of leniency, though millions were still deported.
Resource Constraints & Strategy: Facing an economic crisis, the administration used enforcement as a tactic to build political will for broader immigration reform, which ultimately stalled.
Declining Interior Removals: While border removals stayed high, interior removals dropped significantly, shifting the type of deportation, even if total numbers were high, making headlines less consistent.
Criticism & Reality
"Deporter-in-Chief" Title: Obama earned the nickname due to high overall numbers, but advocates argued he deported many without serious criminal records, undermining his "humane" stance.
Mixed Results: Policies like the Priority Enforcement Program (PEP) aimed to focus on serious crimes, but data showed many deported didn't fit strict priority definitions.
In essence, the focus was on who was being deported (criminals vs. non-criminals) and how (interior vs. border), rather than just the total count, creating a complex narrative that sometimes obscured the significant enforcement still occurring.
I will idly comment that my former city residence, St. Louis is a Sanctuary City For reproductive rights.
When that aldermanic bill passed, I knew the place was truly crazy. I don’t even know what it means. Of course it’s obviously performative, but at some point, will there be state or federal strife about “reproductive rights” within STL? I can’t see how that would have any teeth anyway.
It’s all so stupid, and I wish we could get back to the important business of covering governing cleanly and minimally.
I like that AI summary, it seems even handed.Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
Yes, it did.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
Two things off the top of my head about it: #1 It seemed to be comparing Obama's border enforcement to the previous Bush administration and #2, It didn't mention the problems associated with 4 years of nearly unfettered access to the country by millions of minimally vetted people swarming into the country illegally. It would have been useful to the ongoing discussion here and elsewhere to bring it up to date.
The comparison of Obama deportations with Trump is sort of apples to oranges. The majority of Obama deportations were recent illegal border crossings. Now border crossings are virtually shutdown. However I hardly buy Noem's claim that most of the ICE roundups are convicted dangerous criminals. They are basically grabbing people off the streets. Since Noem won't release much information, the real figures are unknown. Today's news featured an off duty Minneapolis cop of color who was stopped and asked for her papers. ICE is targeting people of color or accent demanding "papers". It reminisces of other historic events where government goons randomly stopped people demanding their papers and hauling people off to the unknown.
BTW, Carney's speech at Davos is worth a read. He basically was asking countries to stand up to bullying, no names mentioned (ha). He said something like you can eith sit at the table, or be on the menu. It got a standing ovation.
Yes it is apples to oranges, it doesn't take into account the 4 years of lax enforcement in-between those two administrations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
Quote:
BTW, Carney's speech at Davos is worth a read. He basically was asking countries to stand up to bullying, no names mentioned (ha). He said something like you can eith sit at the table, or be on the menu. It got a standing ovation.
I heard parts of it, and so did the Washington Post who had this to say:
...Frustrations with one American president need not give way to the agenda of dictators. “I had discussions with President Xi about the situation in Greenland, about our sovereignty in the Arctic, about the sovereignty of the people of Greenland and the people of Denmark,” Carney said. “And I found much alignment of views in that regard.”
What? There is universal agreement within NATO that the Arctic must be protected from China and Russia. Any suggestion that Ottawa and Beijing agree on geopolitical strategy concerning the Arctic is either deeply insincere or worryingly naive."
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
How can you make a valid POINT without knowledge of background?
This is the REAL problem in the Twin Cities as I see it, the clamping down of free speech by government agents. This is far more concerning to me than people who are here illegally being detained and deported. To a lesser extent, as the author this article points out, people are assuming they have First Amendment rights they do not.
Greg Lukianoff heads up an organization I donate to annually: FIRE the Foundation for Individual Rights and Freedoms. It’s an organization that concerns itself with First Amendment rights. His organization had plenty to do during the Biden administration, but now in Trump World his challenges are on steroids, although the organization focuses on activities of college campuses.
https://open.substack.com/pub/bariwe...m_medium=email
I think one of the reasons Trump backed off his Greenland domination was the new threats that Canada and some of the other EU countries are starting to make alliances with China because Trump is screwing them with his tariff games and threats of aggressive global domination. Trumps isn't exactly all powerful when all of the EU and Canada are combined.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Objectively, I could see them thinking dealing with China or maybe Russia may have an advantage over their deteriorating long term trade allegiance with the US, all considered.
A commentary on Trump's rambling speech showed him saying something to the effect that China is the biggest producer of wind turbines in the world, yet they don't have any. The commentary said that actually China is leading in wind power generation and 20% of their electricity cones from the wind. I think Russia is just a big gas station, but I'd worried about who is king of the mountain if we don't keep up with education and technology.
Canada just signed some sort of trade deal with China. Don’t know details.
You don’t have any idea….Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan