Recovering hoarders?

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

Well, in looking up definitions of greed, one is "a strong desire to get more of something." Which I think all humans experience.

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I would agree. Few folks in the world have eliminated this type of desire.

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

another qualifies that with "more than one needs" which again, in a strict definition of "need" encompasses pretty much everybody on this board.

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I would agree. I certainly have more than I need. Though I am intrigued about whether or not I am happier or healthier because of it.

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

i know I have everything I truly need right now, so to want anything at all would be greedy. And yet, I am greedily awaiting my siding delivery.

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Do you examine this desire? Reflect on it? If so, tell me about it.

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

a third definition includes "more than one's share." So it is definitely greedy of me to want to fill more than half of the storage space in my home.

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I would yet again agree. How many square feet is your home?

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

eventually, you reach a point where a person has more than they could possibly ever use (and one would argue enjoy, and yet, maybe just knowing they own that island they will never get around to visiting makes them happy)

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I personally know numerous people who own more than they could ever possibly use. Something about it feel tragic when I look upon them. I am still figuring out what to think and feel about that phenomenon though.

The idea of someone owning a private island that the will never get around to visiting makes them happy seems a bit far-fetched. I actually do know a couple who own a private island. They rarely get to visit. And when they do, it is to work on building up the resort they are developing there. They don't seem to be happy owning it and not really being there. They also don't seem to think being there would make them happy either. Perhaps happiness is largely and internal experience that is also internally derived (which is why I meditate -- which is very much internal and minimalistic).

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

i think desire becomes a problem (greed) when it takes away from others or consumes your life. And in that way it does play into hoarding and the aspect of it that is selfish (just as drug addiction and untreated depression are selfish - they hurt those around you.)

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True. I'd say yes, this is largely true.

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

but it is it "greedy" to want to keep 700 rubber bands that were on their way to the landfill? I don't know. One could also argue that it is greedy to fill up a landfill with items that are still useful.

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Excellent question! Hmmmm... I'd say: "Are you really keeping them from going to the landfill or are you turning a little place in your house into a little piece of landfill?"

I would also ask if perhaps the greed was in the manufacture and/or acquisition of the rubber bands, not in the keeping vs. throwing away. And that acquisition is further complicated by how does one avoid them? Who is the real culprit in too many rubber bands being made in the first place, etc.?

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

So, given the new definition, I would say that hoarding is probably both inordinate and insatiable. (Like compulsive eating?). However, I do have mine under control to the point where it is no longer insatiable, so, the quote you pasted, would disqualify it from being greed by stating that there is a point of "enough".

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I agree.. just as a recovering alcoholic has learned to regulate satiety with regards to alcohol consumption (usually by abstaining)

As I am not living in a climate with year round hand to mouth nutrition and a temperature that would allow me to remain naked, I cannot abstain from stuff. Also, need my glasses to see well enough to find said imaginary nutrition.

i have not annalyzed my greed for siding. We are building an addition. It is wrapped in tyvec. We have ordered siding, it is coming, I want it, the thought of having it installed pleases me, the end.

it is not healthy for me to think too hard about rubber bands.

also trying to break myself of the habit of trying to figure out if other people's choices make them happy. It does not seem to benefit anyone.

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

As I am not living in a climate with year round hand to mouth nutrition and a temperature that would allow me to remain naked, I cannot abstain from stuff. Also, need my glasses to see well enough to find said imaginary nutrition.

i have not annalyzed my greed for siding. We are building an addition. It is wrapped in tyvec. We have ordered siding, it is coming, I want it, the thought of having it installed pleases me, the end.

it is not healthy for me to think too hard about rubber bands.

also trying to break myself of the habit of trying to figure out if other people's choices make them happy. It does not seem to benefit anyone.

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When I mentioned abstention, I certainly didn't mean abstention is the always the antidote to greed!! Not at all. In fact, I adhere to the saying, "What you resist, persists" So, moderation in all things, but with substance abuse, that's not usually possible.

Plus, I still have a hard time categorizing hoarding as greedy.

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Originally Posted by catherine

When I mentioned abstention, I certainly didn't mean abstention is the always the antidote to greed!! Not at all. In fact, I adhere to the saying, "What you resist, persists" So, moderation in all things, but with substance abuse, that's not usually possible.

Plus, I still have a hard time categorizing hoarding as greedy.

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thats funny because my gut reaction is that hoarding is extremely greedy. But thats not a well reasoned opinion, it just is from the gut.

No, I just meant that that is one thing that is frustrating about hoarding. Abstention is not a viable option. and "stuff" is sadly ubiquitous.

i offer a though exercise UA should enjoy:

i do not want "disposable" plastic cups. I don't like to use them, I don't want them in my house, and I never want to buy another one as long as I live!

but I have them. In fact, we used them at the brunch. And I told everybody to toss them in the sink, and I washed them and put them back in the cupboard. Because the alternative is what? Throwing them "away"? There is no "away" and they can be reused and if they are thrown out, more cups will be bought, and more cups will be made, and more cups will be thrown away, and I could have done something to reduce this (see why I stopped thinking about rubber bands?)

i try to give them away, but your kids never want to sign up to bring the cups to the party when they know you will send used (and washed) cups of many kinds.

I brought the the bag from behind the bar home from the wedding to recycle the bottles (we had to carry out the trash). And I dumped it in the yard to hose everything off because it had to wait a week and because there were a few things in there other than bottles (not many) but this included seven plastic cups. And they can't be recycled. So I washed them. And now I have more plastic cups.

(side note - the three bags that were not bar bags I put in the trash without sorting - and it was hard!)

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

thats funny because my gut reaction is that hoarding is extremely greedy. But thats not a well reasoned opinion, it just is from the gut.

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I feel it is greedy too. I don't like to feel greed in myself. But I still do some greedy things from time to time. :(

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

No, I just meant that that is one thing that is frustrating about hoarding. Abstention is not a viable option. and "stuff" is sadly ubiquitous.

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It is especially difficult when your addiction is something you need anyway -- like food or some stuff.

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

i offer a though exercise UA should enjoy:

i do not want "disposable" plastic cups. I don't like to use them, I don't want them in my house, and I never want to buy another one as long as I live!

but I have them. In fact, we used them at the brunch. And I told everybody to toss them in the sink, and I washed them and put them back in the cupboard. Because the alternative is what? Throwing them "away"? There is no "away" and they can be reused and if they are thrown out, more cups will be bought, and more cups will be made, and more cups will be thrown away, and I could have done something to reduce this (see why I stopped thinking about rubber bands?)

i try to give them away, but your kids never want to sign up to bring the cups to the party when they know you will send used (and washed) cups of many kinds.

I brought the the bag from behind the bar home from the wedding to recycle the bottles (we had to carry out the trash). And I dumped it in the yard to hose everything off because it had to wait a week and because there were a few things in there other than bottles (not many) but this included seven plastic cups. And they can't be recycled. So I washed them. And now I have more plastic cups.

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This seems like a mental prison.

Though I would disagree. There is an "away." But it is a matter of distance. I throw something away and it goes miles from me into a landfill. You keep something I would throw away, but it is away in a cupboard in your house. I prefer my away. I have seen landfills in real life many times. I don't want that crap in my apartment.

How did everyone react to you keeping the plastic cups and washing them?

I used to live near a landfill. I don't want that crap on my planet. Your definition of home is too small for me.

everyone thought it was a great idea. It was family. I was either being thrifty or environmentally responsible. I think your upbringing shapes your hoarding. Maybe if I was raised by people who focused on animal rescue I'd hoard cats.

it is a mental prison. THAT IS THE POINT. It's not a character flaw, it's not laziness or lack of willpower, it's not stubbornness, it's not greed. I DON'T WANT TO DO THIS. But it's really hard to find the door out.

Those people on hoarders who are crying? They aren't brats throwing a fit. They are actually in pain. Someone is dragging them straight through the bars.