that's right!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken lady
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that's right!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken lady
Hoarding has a genetic component. Some research shows that the problem has to do with defective chromosome 14.
Yup. And I see it in my family, which is why it's so important to me to intervene early with this little chick of mine.
True confession. Fisherman will sometimes lose bobbers in tangles of trees. I saw one that I would usually use so I pulled it out and kept it. This happened two more times.
Then I thought: "Holy chit! Am I hoarding these bobbers?! I have more than I need and I keep picking them up..."
I had a dang anxiety attack.
From here you were cleaning up the environment. Just pass the extra ones on.
you may worry too much about your genetics. Mayb you could get Estes for the hoarding gene?
Passing them on how? Asking people if they want them? Then if they don't want them, then what?
And that sounds like playing matchmaker -- match the used bobber to the fisherman. Playing matchmaker is often a hoarder activity.
If no one wants them then I either throw them away (so much for cleaning the environment) or I hoard them.
It is best for me to not travel down that road.
Drop them at a donation box or a thrift store, or yes, offer them to another fisherman.
i'm hoping you cleaned up the line when you took the bobber, so even if you throw them out, that's better than bobber and line endangering wildlife.
playing matchmaker is also an environmental stewardship activity. In part it depends on motivation as well as amount of effort expended - if I walk an extra three feet to recycle my can instead of throwing it away, I am still "playing matchmaker" for best use.
i took three puzzles to work and gave them to a friend for her son - the extra effort was basically carrying the puzzles to the car instead of the recycling bin (8 ft) and then carrying them in to work (extra liar, no extra steps). The puzzles were reused, the kid got a surprise, and no money was spent. The fact that I'm a hoarder doesn't negate the benefits of that teansaction.
I am not saying playing matchmaker is always bad.
But I know of hoarders who store tons of things with the good intentions of finding just the right match for them.
And then when someone needs just that one special hard-to-find thing that only the hoarder has and they give it to the person, then it makes all the hoarding seem rational.
Yep. And I agree with you.
honestly, one of the hardest things for me n the dehoarding has been that sometimes someone will ask me for something, and I got rid of it. It's really hard, like "I'm so sorry, I forgot to feed your dog" hard.
I will admit that I simply cannot understand this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken lady
I mean, this has happened to me before. I gave away something someone wanted later. I was just like: "Oh well...they can live without it or spend $30 on Amazon"
And someone has given away something I wanted before too, back in my pre-minimalist days. I just felt like: "Bummer. If it turns out I really, really want or need it then I will spring for it."
My mom often says she "loaned" things to me. I don't remember her ever loaning them to me or even giving them to me. But she will ask me about these items every time she sees me. We go through this annoying routine like this:
Mom: "Have you found the _______ I loaned you?"
Me: "I don't remember you loaning me anything like that."
Mom: "I did loan it to you! I want it back. It was your grandmother's!"
Me: "I have no idea what you are talking about."
Mom: "You do too!"
Me: "You may have misplaced it."
Mom: "Did you lose it?!"
On and on... Makes no sense.
I don't know what's up its you and your mom on that. There are things I've loaned people because I'm happy for them to have them, but I'm not happy for them to get rid of them (I want this, but if you want it too, I want you to have it more than I want it.).
I'm afraid my brother forgot that that was the case with a particular toy we had as kids, and got rid of it, but I'm dealing with that by pretending he's still keeping it even though his youngest has outgrown it. I won't ask, because if he did get rid of it, I'll be sad.
i know that you don't get the level of regret I feel over not having an object for someone - it doesn't make sense. it's pathalogical.
dd is making good progress today. She went through a keeping bin and recycled a big stack of old schoolwork, and purged about a grocery bag of other stuff so far. Now she's putting away/sorting shoes and clothes. I'm suffering some vicarious stress about her stuff. I accepted the gift of a pair of boots and I may keep a little magnetic frog too.
would freecycle be so bad? or are they not worth even that level of keeping?Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler
Welp... against my better judgement, and to save about $30 I have enabled my mom and dad in their hoarding.
I should have known better.
As I mentioned in another thread, I wanted to get a good-sized cast iron skillet. I knew they had a bunch they did not use. I figured I would get it from them and wash the holy heck out of it and it'd be totally usable.
So I called my mom and asked: "Hey, you happen to have a good-sized cast iron skillet floating around?"
She was like: "Oh yes, sure do! I think it is in the basement in a box maybe..."
Twas at that moment when I realized my mistake.
A few outcomes were/are possible:
1. She digs through the hoard and finds it quickly. Thus, having found just the item I really need, she can rationalize her hoarding.
2. She digs through the hoard and it takes her a few weeks or months to find it. She can still use this to justify her hoarding. But in the meantime I am without a cast iron skillet.
3. She digs through the hoard for a month or whatever and never finds it. So she buys me one. This wastes her money. And by then I will have probably given up waiting and bought one myself. Then I tell her I don't need the one she bought and then she adds it to the hoard.
yeah, I can see where that may not end well. Maybe she will surprise you and deliver two iron skillets, a medium and a small, with a flourish! But you probably want just one. Bet you didnt think of that, you ending up with multiple skillets! Add that as point number 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler
She rarely surprises.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
Just call her back and tell her you found one at Goodwill for $2, bought it, and she no longer has to find one. And then buy yourself one, whatever the price is and pretend you spent $2 at Goodwill.
I bought a Lodge cast iron skillet, average size I guess, maybe 8-10", at a Hispanic market for like $8.99. I tried to use it and get with the whole cast iron thing but it did not take. I found it too heavy and kind of a hassle since I'm used to the 12" deep non-stick ones with a lid that Costco sells for around $20. I donated it to GW and it was pretty much new. Later I saw the same skillet at BedBadBeyond for about $30.
Doing this tonight! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by watergoddess
I saw an earlier post by someone saying that if they give something away the other person can't choose to get rid of it later. Once something is gone it is no longer yours. I think the want it back mentality contributes to hoarding.UL: it looks like you have a good solution. I tell my kids if they need something ask before they buy it but unlike your Mom I know if I have it and where it is. Although, with my constant downsizing I have less extras of things.
If I were the giver of something that I didn't want the receiver to ever dispose of I would tell the receiver "if you ever decide you don't need or want this anymore please return it to me." An example being something like a family heirloom. Otherwise, once I've given it away, that item is no longer under my control and the receiver should do with it what they will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
This is idealistic. You probably feel and operate this way. I doubt many other people do though, especially hoarders.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
I actually think that most people don't expect something back when they give it away. From my life experience ...
Ultralite, even with me, it's a mix. My ds called me about every single thing I'd sent him to college with when he was packing for Wisconsin. And I appreciated it. But really, all I wanted back were the pillow a family member needle pointed and a couple of useful things, that if he'd never asked, I'd have forgotten. And actually he kept the useful things, and probably will discard them if he leaves Wisconsin on his own dime because they'll be easier to replace than move - the company packed and moved him this time. And I'm fine with that.
I white lied them. I just told them I stopped at a yard sale on my ride home from work. I said I got a cast iron skillet and a some silverware for a few bucks. They believed the lie. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by watergoddess
Thankfully I don't know any hoarders. At least not any of my close friends/relatives. If this was the expectation I would simply decline everything. I'm no minimalist (I have no idea how many things I have but it's way more than 150) but I'm also not a hoarder. As things stop being useful or lovely I'm fine with ditching them by whatever way I can, hopefully through gifting or at least recycling, free craigslisting, etc. Anything I would give away is not something I care about. If I actually care about something it is not likely I'll give away. My high school yearbooks come to mind. I could certainly go on with life if they were gone, but when the big earthquake comes they will be one of the things I will most miss if this building and its contents gets destroyed. And when I finally create a will (yes, I know I need to stop procrastinating and just get this done) those yearbooks will be left to the denver public library. I remember going there as a teenager and spending hours looking through the yearbooks from my high school from back in the teens and twenties. Perhaps decades from now someone would find it interesting to look through yearbooks from the 1980's. I can't imagine why, but then I'm sure the kids from the 1920's couldn't have imagined what I would find interesting in their yearbooks.Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler
About 1 in 20 people is a compulsive hoarder. You know plenty of them, I am sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
Some are clever at hiding it.
You are undoubtedly correct. My first bf was definitely one. Thankfully he was also compulsively neat. But i'll never forget the shock the movers felt when they showed up at his studio apartment, commenting that some people's 3 bedroom houses had less stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler
So, lately I've been trying to get rid of something every day, and I'm doing a much better job throwing things out!
empty plastic food containers, used bailing twine, cheap plastic hangers that came with clothes, the empty feed bags, and I'm feeling a lot less stress about it.
i even managed to take two trash cans dh filled while working on the addition up to the road without checking them for wood or metal.
Excellent!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken lady
Also, because things tend to come in one one side even while going out the other, the "every day" thing has to be something I already had when I started this in May. So, now that I have thrown out all the feed bags, throwing out feed bags doesn't count - it's just maintainence, like throwing away a used tissue. (Unless I am cleaning out some remote corner of the barn and find more feed bags - those would count.)
i am am still collecting dolls. Dh says it may be getting out of hand. And I bought a new pair of shoes, but it's a pair I've wanted for about a year and I threw away an old, worn out pair of shoes.
On on the dolls - I have started trying to be more disciplined about it - I've been watching some that I like on ebay expire or sell without bidding and being mindful of how I feel and how I feel later, and how many of them. I can actually remember after a couple of weeks - almost none. I should probably stop looking, but there are about six specific ones I'm still looking for, and I think the current process (watch and reflect) is helpful. I also think it would help if I got my house to a point where I could put all the dolls out again and really see how many there are.
It sounds like you are really working at this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken lady
About the dolls, what happens if you don't get those other six dolls?
And what happens if you do get the other six dolls?
It is possible but really hard to change a hoarder outlook. I have spent years acquiring fabric for my quilting obsession. It finally hit me that I was using things I did not like because I got them cheap or free. They were taking up space and keeping me from using really nice things that were buried. There will always be more fabric.
So I stopped accepting free things, stopped cold turkey going to garage sales, estate sales and watching ebay. I will use what I have and be satisfied with it. I will give some away (and have) to our guild.
I have at various times in the past 40 years acquired too many books, cat collectibles, Fiestaware, patterns, etc. It is a learning process figuring out why I did this and how to stop it. Did not help that husband enjoyed shopping for ebay items. Thankfully this is over.
My mantra now is more out than in and no shopping.
If you indeed were a compulsive hoarder and you beat it, then you are the rarest of exceptions. Kudos to you!Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetana3
Ideally, if I don't get the other six dolls, I will recondition myself not to spontaneously acquire things and I will enjoy the hunt indefinitely. Practically, I will probably buy more dolls I "didn't know I wanted" or move on to acquiring something else (but I'm trying hard to stop that)
if if I do get them, I will enjoy having them, and I may stop looking, in which case, return to the end of the previous paragraph.
being able to actually state the above, is a big step. Five years ago I would have been telling myself (and others) I'm just going to look for these six. I'm not going to buy anything else." Which was a lie and not helpful.
i'm not better. I'm getting better.
Btw, the used tissue example? It took me several minutes to think of something that was normal and ok to throw out.
Used tissue example?
I recently met a couple. I know one is a hoarder. I strongly suspect the other is too, though she might be what I call a "hoarder-by-proxy."
They said they are "curbside shoppers." The HbP said she "really enjoys the hunt!" and got a gleam in her eye. The for-sure hoarder said he likes to get something most consider junk and then turn it into something useful and he likes a never ending stream of projects, though he does not complete all of them. He also said he collects so, so many books and records and so forth. And that he has to dig through clutter to get them.
They are being pressured by their kids to de-hoard their place. I think the kids are pressuring hard because they are unaware that their parents (at least one anyway) are compulsive hoarders.
When I said throwing out the feed bags now is like throwing out used tissues. There is not really a space in my brain for "trash".
Okay, I see what you meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken lady
What do you think of the hoarder-by-proxy thing?
This is what I think my dad is. Like, he would not hoard if he were not with my mom.
.
There is a strong genetic component to hoarding. The research has zeroed in on chromosome 14. They don't know details yet, but they think that might well be the source of the genetic problem in hoarding.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseQuartz
Most hoarders do some hoarding when they are kids, in their teens. And then it gets worse with time.
But you are right: There is a trigger.
This is usually some traumatic event.
Often people -- even hoarders themselves -- with rationalize their condition by saying: "I grew up poor."
But being deprived or growing up in poverty has shown to have no relation to hoarding later in life. What does happen is that trigger moment. Most hoarders have one -- death of a loved one, abandonment by someone, a diagnosis, etc.
Being a minimalist makes the whole process of having enough stuff and the maintenance of making sure you don't have too much stuff, or dumb stuff for that matter, much easier and less time consuming.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseQuartz
The issue is awareness. People who are all like "I ain't counting my stuff!" or "Paying all the attention to stuff is a waste of time!" do not realize a very important fact.
They do have to pay attention to and deal with their stuff even if they don't count it. But as minimalist you:
-Pay attention to the time all that stuff takes
-Then you "clock in" and deal with it all
-Once you have dealt with it and totally minimized then you clock out
-From then on, you clock in here and there to do maintenance; but you put in very few hours
The Stuffified people deal with the stuff in different ways -- like not inviting people over because the place is a mess or they trip over stuff or they lose things and spend tons of time searching or they waste countless hours cleaning useless stuff or rearranging it or "organizing" stuff (code for "well-planned hoarding").
So when The Stuffified get smug and say: "I am not wasting my time counting stuff or doing your silly-right sizing or whatever" I just think:
"Ooooookay... waste your time -- and a lot more of it -- with all that stuff."
I'd like to audit the time use of minimalists vs. maximalists.
Though I doubt any maximalists would submit to such an audit because under the surface...they know. They know.
Attachment 1596Attachment 1597
Since we are talking about pulling thngs in from the alley amnd making them better, here are two alleynfnds
I updated. I painted cherries on the chair and now it really pops! I put lants in the little planter and while,they are not mature,mits still,a cute little thing. Both are going to a sidewalk sale tomorrow that benefits our park.