LGBT rights in the USA today...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iris lilies

Perhaps the voters are tired of everyone being demonized, and using the personal problems of a 14 year old girl to beat your favorite hobby horse, the evil mean Republicans, is one kind of tiresome trope.

---

maybe. But then there would have been the red wave they were predicting.

Instead most republicans did not support this act protecting all Americans equally, regardless of their religious beliefs. It also protects interracial couples. Ted Cruz did not support it, as most Republicans did not. I’m not sure what they are afraid of. No one is telling them they have to marry a same sex partner, or have an abortion or marry someone outside their race. Why is it so important to them?

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/11...e-bill-senate/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bae

Related:

https://juliaserano.medium.com/anti-...d-a511a93b042f

---

I don't understand the conservative obsession with transsexuality, or the focus on "grooming," which has never seemed to have anything to do with the subject at hand. But I guess it works to fire up their base.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JaneV2.0

I don't understand the conservative obsession with transsexuality, or the focus on "grooming," which has never seemed to have anything to do with the subject at hand. But I guess it works to fire up their base.

---

And yet, you have expressed some concerns about medicalized transitioning of minors.

I consider promotion of medicalized gender transition to minors, along with minimizing very real negative effects of hormonal therapy, to be “grooming. “

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iris lilies

And yet, you have expressed some concerns about medicalized transitioning of minors.

I consider promotion of medicalized gender transition to minors, along with minimizing very real negative effects of hormonal therapy, to be “grooming. “

---

Supporting transitioning is what you understand "grooming" to be? I think of it as a kind of seduction process in pedophilia.

I am concerned about the prevalence of medicalized transition in adolescents, whose brains aren't even close to being fully developed..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JaneV2.0

I am concerned about the prevalence of medicalized transition in adolescents, whose brains aren't even close to being fully developed..

---

Prevalence. Interesting word. I'm curious....

How many adolescents are there in the USA?

How many of them identify as trans?

How many of them are on puberty blockers?

How many Dominoe's Pizza locations are there for each adolescent on blockers in the USA?

( 25 million between ages of 12-17. ~300,000. ~5,000, or, about 0.02% of the adolescent population. 3.77 locations/person. )

Totally unrelated - how many kids in America today suffer from malnutrition which impacts development? I have more questions...

Maybe I should have written "increasing incidence" instead of "prevalence."

Yes--malnutrition could explain many things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iris lilies

Perhaps the voters are tired of everyone being demonized, and using the personal problems of a 14 year old girl to beat your favorite hobby horse, the evil mean Republicans, is one kind of tiresome trope.

---

And perhaps LGBTQ people are tired of being targeted for demonization by republicans. I'll make an offer. If your team stops demonizing people like me I'll stop calling them out for being shitty human beings for doing so. Until your politicians agree to that deal I will keep calling them out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jp1

And perhaps LGBTQ people are tired of being targeted for demonization by republicans. I'll make an offer. If your team stops demonizing people like me I'll stop calling them out for being shitty human beings for doing so. Until your politicians agree to that deal I will keep calling them out.

---

You may continue to call out any speech you find repugnant, I support you at that. Unlike members of “your team “ who like to silence conflicting views, I don’t intend to silence you.

I don't think a 14 year old's experience means much either, except to her. Even if her parents are indeed horrible to live with, bad parents are found throughout the political spectrum, I have no doubt.

As for silencing though, it goes on on both sides, are we really supposed to believe Fox news (much less Newsmax etc.) gives equal and fair time to Democrats and liberals? I mean really. And that's basically what is being called "silencing conflicting views".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iris lilies

You may continue to call out any speech you find repugnant, I support you at that. Unlike members of “your team “ who like to silence conflicting views, I don’t intend to silence you.

---

Perhaps I should just start calling you groomer. After all it seems kind of suspicious that you don’t have kids and that you used to be a librarian. What are you trying to hide groomer? You seem kind of creepy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jp1

Perhaps I should just start calling you groomer. After all it seems kind of suspicious that you don’t have kids and that you used to be a librarian. What are you trying to hide groomer? You seem kind of creepy.

---

Hunh?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore

I don't think a 14 year old's experience means much either, except to her. Even if her parents are indeed horrible to live with, bad parents are found throughout the political spectrum, I have no doubt.

As for silencing though, it goes on on both sides, are we really supposed to believe Fox news (much less Newsmax etc.) gives equal and fair time to Democrats and liberals? I mean really. And that's basically what is being called "silencing conflicting views".

---

oh no no no. When you say basically what has been called “silencing conflicting views is the fact that Fox News doesn’t bring up a complete in view…” No.

Silence is demonetizing Blair White. Silence is shutting down a comic and pulling him off stage when he makes a joke about gay men even though the joke is sympathetic to gay men. Silencing is removing tweets, posts, threads, IG stories, YouTube videos from social media platforms in the hundreds and perhaps thousands and banning their authors.

What about that pathetic piece of work, Vicky Hartzler?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rosarugosa

What about that pathetic piece of work, Vicky Hartzler?

---

I had to look up to see what Vicki did. She’s not my congressional person but she is in the next door district. You mean she was crying about the latest Congressional bill about same-sex marriage?

I don't see social media as fundamentally different than Fox news. If Fox news can present one perspective then social media can if it wants to as well. I'd bet anything that Fox news reaches a MUCH LARGER audience as well, so what are we even talking about, if Fox has greater reach then it's much more important.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore

I don't see social media as fundamentally different than Fox news. If Fox news can present one perspective then social media can if it wants to as well. I'd bet anything that Fox news reaches a MUCH LARGER audience as well, so what are we even talking about, if Fox has greater reach then it's much more important.

---

hmm, I can see that. If one recognizes that Fox News and MS NBC each have a particular political bias, one needs to take that same realization to social media platforms.

My problem is that I perceive social media forums as the peoples’ town square where every voice may be heard. And there in lies the problem, my initial expectation is just wrong.

Okay---it would be nice if Ol Joe could fix another pressing issue for demmacrats---the problems encountered in exiting a sinking vehicle. Yup. Hope that helps you some. Thankk Mee.Attachment 4992

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iris lilies

Hunh?

---

Congrats on never having to deal with people baselessly calling you groomer and just being baffled by it. I wish I and other LGBTQ people could be so lucky. But thanks to team red we all don’t have such a luxury.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jp1

Congrats on never having to deal with people baselessly calling you groomer and just being baffled by it. I wish I and other LGBTQ people could be so lucky. But thanks to team red we all don’t have such a luxury.

---

Ooooo, ok. You have a point, but just barely.

Are we truly in a period of peak LGBT hatred compared to twenty or fifty years ago, or are we just magnifying every marginal wingnut through the internet funhouse mirror? Is the average American of 2022 less tolerant of sexual outliers than the average American of 1972?

Violence against the innocent is wrong, but this whole theory of hatred absorbed from the cultural ether also strikes me as wrong. There is no person or organization I trust to determine what expression is too dangerous to allow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LDAHL

Are we truly in a period of peak LGBT hatred compared to twenty or fifty years ago, or are we just magnifying every marginal wingnut through the internet funhouse mirror? Is the average American of 2022 less tolerant of sexual outliers than the average American of 1972?

Violence against the innocent is wrong, but this whole theory of hatred absorbed from the cultural ether also strikes me as wrong. There is no person or organization I trust to determine what expression is too dangerous to allow.

---

In all kinds of situations? I am not sure. Remember Archie Bunker?

I think the difference between 1972 and 2022 is the fact that some marginalized populations have finally found their voice. It hasn't been "hatred" from the cultural ether that has suppressed certain groups, but just the societal expectation that everyone should be and act in accordance to the rules of the dominant culture (read: white, cis male). DH is continually pining about how he wishes we could go back to the 50s. Well, in the 50s, blacks couldn't sit among whites in restaurants, or even go to the same rest rooms. Women couldn't get a job because if they did, that would be one less job available for a man.Post-divorce, DH's mother felt she could rise no higher than a clerk in Macy's, despite her incredble aptitude. Forget the LGBTQ+ community--they just kept that closet door shut tight due to retribution from society.

So, now, in 2022, the dominant culture of 1972 is simply reaping what is has sown. I don't think any of these marginalized groups are seeking dominance or revenge--just fairness and equality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LDAHL

Are we truly in a period of peak LGBT hatred compared to twenty or fifty years ago, or are we just magnifying every marginal wingnut through the internet funhouse mirror? Is the average American of 2022 less tolerant of sexual outliers than the average American of 1972?

Violence against the innocent is wrong, but this whole theory of hatred absorbed from the cultural ether also strikes me as wrong. There is no person or organization I trust to determine what expression is too dangerous to allow.

---

you were lucky if you were never teased or beat up if you were a “sissy”.

even the Jingles.
hot dogs, armour hot dogs
all kinds of kids eat armour hot dogs
fat kids, skinny kids, kids who climb out n rocks
tough kids, sissy kids
even kids with chicken pox”

remember Matthew Shephatd in 1998 who was beaten, tortured and left to die for being gay?

of course we should all be less tolerant of these things. What kind of society are we if we tolerate hate, name calling. No wonder why young people are leaving churches in droves.

and Vicki Hatzler, who cried in Congress about same sex marriage. She has a nephew who was sent to conversion camp and if not for COVID and remote learning where he had no visibly of his sexual status would have been expelled from Christian College. He was on the verge of expulsion before then. It’s ugly out there.

Ah, how fondly I remember the good old days when pointing out a crying woman in Congress would have been labeled misogynistic and Gloria Steinem would have had a thing or two to say about it. I miss my 2nd wave (or is it 3rd wave?) Feminist icons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by catherine

I think the difference between 1972 and 2022 is the fact that some marginalized populations have finally found their voice. It hasn't been "hatred" from the cultural ether that has suppressed certain groups, but just the societal expectation that everyone should be and act in accordance to the rules of the dominant culture (read: white, cis male). DH is continually pining about how he wishes we could go back to the 50s. Well, in the 50s, blacks couldn't sit among whites in restaurants, or even go to the same rest rooms. Women couldn't get a job because if they did, that would be one less job available for a man.Post-divorce, DH's mother felt she could rise no higher than a clerk in Macy's, despite her incredble aptitude. Forget the LGBTQ+ community--they just kept that closet door shut tight due to retribution from society.

So, now, in 2022, the dominant culture of 1972 is simply reaping what is has sown. I don't think any of these marginalized groups are seeking dominance or revenge--just fairness and equality.

---

This is a reasonable review of where we are now. Thanks. It seems to me that jockeying for a voice in society as these formerly marginalized groups are doing DOES bring out too much pushback, which in turn seems to cause them to be…Extra.

Okay----I bemember back in '72, when the local businesses in those littlebitty burgs waaaay up in the middle o' nowhere, all kept pads o' so-called "counter checks", and you could get gas to go driving around or groceries or whatever(beer), and request the counter checks from the cashier, and write one to pay and even for a little extra. Y'had ta fill in your accouint number o' course. But yeah---there was a short list o' people taped to the register whose checks were not acceptable. But by the end of the 70's, as the lists became longer, counter checks pretty much went the way o' the 45 rpm record. Yep. Hope that helps you recall the good ol; days. Thankk mee.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bae

Related:

https://juliaserano.medium.com/anti-...d-a511a93b042f

---

I skimmed this article and can see the author may have a point about groups of teenage girls transitioning in a clump. It may not be “social contagion “ that causes this, it may be as the author suggests a lifting of stigma and girls with this interest band together.

But who really knows. Is there social science research so robust, so irrefutable in this area that it proves anything? I don’t think so.

I may come back and spend more time with this article because the author seems to mis-characterizes one part of the research she links but I need to spend more time with the links before I conclude for sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iris lilies

Ah, how fondly I remember the good old days when pointing out a crying woman in Congress would have been labeled misogynistic and Gloria Steinem would have had a thing or two to say about it. I miss my 2nd wave (or is it 3rd wave?) Feminist icons.

---

My take: Hartzler's crying was fake, and her "concern" was a grab for airtime. I saw her nephew interviewed, and I'm glad he's gotten beyond a rough start.

And then when I am having shower thoughts...perhaps gender really is morphing in many species due to our polluted environment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pinkytoe

And then when I am having shower thoughts...perhaps gender really is morphing in many species due to our polluted environment.

---

Wasn’t it Alex Jones who ranted about chemicals in the water turning the damn frogs gay?

Bisexuality is probably more natural than heterosexuality, which is much more just a social convention that has been considered until recently the way one should be. The young people especially they are finding themselves. Now that's sexuality not gender, the gender stuff I do find confusing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore

Bisexuality is probably more natural than heterosexuality, which is much more just a social convention that has been considered until recently the way one should be. The young people especially they are finding themselves. Now that's sexuality not gender, the gender stuff I do find confusing.

---

Both of them are likely on a spectrum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LDAHL

Wasn’t it Alex Jones who ranted about chemicals in the water turning the damn frogs gay?

---

A lot of sane people think environmental toxins are affecting amphibians:
https://news.berkeley.edu/2010/03/01/frogs/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LDAHL

Are we truly in a period of peak LGBT hatred compared to twenty or fifty years ago, or are we just magnifying every marginal wingnut through the internet funhouse mirror? Is the average American of 2022 less tolerant of sexual outliers than the average American of 1972?

Violence against the innocent is wrong, but this whole theory of hatred absorbed from the cultural ether also strikes me as wrong. There is no person or organization I trust to determine what expression is too dangerous to allow.

---

Who said we were at the point of peak LGBTQ hatred?

Correct me if I’m wrong but when I read your post I read ‘LGBTQ people just need to sit down and shut up because things used to be a lot worse.’

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jp1

Who said we were at the point of peak LGBTQ hatred?

Correct me if I’m wrong but when I read your post I read ‘LGBTQ people just need to sit down and shut up because things used to be a lot worse.’

---

Not at all. I just think blaming what some people do on what other people say is becoming a reflex response similar to “thoughts and prayers”.

And I think that pretending that words never inspire actions is incredibly naive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jp1

And I think that pretending that words never inspire actions is incredibly naive.

---

Does that mean that we should start moderating your frequent claims that Republicans and or those against mandatory mask or vaccine requirements want to kill people? Should we take steps now to prevent the site from being accused of harboring and encouraging stochastic terrorism?

Quote:

---

Does that mean that we should start moderating your frequent claims that Republicans and or those against mandatory mask or vaccine requirements want to kill people? Should we take steps now to prevent the site from being accused of harboring and encouraging stochastic terrorism?

---

Well there has never been any such terrorism, but sure we should put hypothetical things that have never happened, in the same realm as hate crimes that actually have. Or maybe not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jp1

And I think that pretending that words never inspire actions is incredibly naive.

---

I think that pretending that any given act of violence is the consequence of words spoken by people you don’t like is incredibly disingenuous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LDAHL

I think that pretending that any given act of violence is the consequence of words spoken by people you don’t like is incredibly disingenuous.

---

In this case, you shouldn’t try thinking.