The Canadian promises Rubot the VP spot to drop out of the race. Trump problem solved.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
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The Canadian promises Rubot the VP spot to drop out of the race. Trump problem solved.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
There's a lot of truth to that. I find that I can't hunt happiness down, but am surprised at how often it has ambushed me. On the other hand, I can pretty much grab a handful of misery whenever I look for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore
I don't know exactly how you attract happiness. Gratitude maybe. Trying to create it for others and hoping to catch some of the backwash. Reasonable expectations. Offloaded baggage. Keeping busy, even if it isn't exactly what you think you were meant to do. Maybe simply accepting that life is hard and finite and contingent, and there's no use being a wimp about it.
I'm just saying.
"Not being a wimp about it." I've found that to be a good rule of thumb.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
We all can. And that should be a red flag to society (not to the government specifically -- no need to freak out!)Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
1. I largely agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
2. I think that since this is the case we all ought to have the right to some belly-aching from time to time.
3. Also since this is the case, people should be able to humanely exit stage left anytime.
there is much in this society that is not conductive to happiness, it does not score all that well on such things, and then there is just the human condition, and then there are personal things which may had or have a social component but.Quote:
We all can. And that should be a red flag to society (not to the government specifically -- no need to freak out!)
I agree, although I don't use those terms, it's more "reality principle" (Freud of course) for me than any type of being tough. It's not toughness it's simple realism.Quote:
Maybe simply accepting that life is hard and finite and contingent, and there's no use being a wimp about it.
Quote:
2. I think that since this is the case we all ought to have the right to some belly-aching from time to time.
yes I'm not sure who disagrees, liberals who have problems that people kill themselves with guns I guess. But I don't know that's too weird a reason to have a problem with guns, I think people have an absolute right to off themselves (but of course it WILL hurt one's loved ones).Quote:
3. Also since this is the case, people should be able to humanely exit stage left anytime. [/B]
Belly aching too often, to the same set of people, and about the same issues, will NOT be allowed at some point because the audience will depart or shut you ( the generic you) out.Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler
I would agree with that. I have found going to a therapist helpful for belly-aching.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
You pay them, do your belly-aching, they pretend to listen and care in a convincing sort of way, and then you go home and spare your family and friends the belly-aching.
Everything i've read is that most people have a baseline level on the happy/muserable continuum. Some things will make them temporarily happy (yea! I got a promotion) or unhappy (i'm down because my dog died) but in fairly short order they go back to their base equilibrium on the happy/miserable scale. Judging by most people i've known this theory seems about right.
I have read the same stuff. I have also experienced this. It makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
But I think that baseline often moves steadily downward for most people as they enter middle age.
Maybe so, but then you get to the Golden Years--and studies show that older people are the happiest, and I have to say, I agree with them. http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4688191Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler
Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
Are you trying to depress me more?! sad-lol
my happiest level went way up in my early 40's. Kids launched, loving my career, more time to myself, pursue my own interests, not having to put the kids first, etc. Great times & things just keep getting better and better!!!!!!! I also noticed that my Mom and grandparents did not complain about their health or other things. They accepted what was and made the best of what they had. My Dad was different because he always loved life and was so happy most of the time. Then at 59 he had a massive stroke that left him with brain damage and he asked God everyday to take him. It was sad because he lived 14 more years. My Mom kept him home and we bought the house next door so we could help. It was good for him because although not happy he got to see us and the kids everyday and interact with everyone.
I am sorry to hear that happened to your dad. Very tragic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
You mentioned you were happiest to have your kids launched and to not have to put the kids first. Why, may I ask, did you have kids if you would not and did not enjoy putting them first?
Substitute "the universe" or "the human condition" for "society" and I'd say you were closer to the truth. We occupy some of the cushiest berths in human history. We are the 1%, yet we can easily find things to be miserable about. We have far more than we're entitled to, yet we can still feel cheated. Some of that has got to be coming from a boundless sense of not getting our due.Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler
I can't help but feel that if someone "exits stage left" because they feel insufficiently cherished, they are squandering a cosmically rare gift.
Haha buddy, Im not TT but I would bet that she DID put them first and probably enjoyed that, in its own way, at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler
There are seasons of our lives and kids move on, if it all works out as it should.That doesn't mean that everyone has to suffer theough children, and it doesnt mean that one cant enjoy the time with dependent kids but also enjoy the time after thet are launched.
Now that I am older I look back at things I did that took a lot of energy at the time, and I wonder why I did that and how I could enjoy those activities, but I did! I dont want to do them now, however. I'm in a different season of my life.
I absolutely loved raising my kids and chose to have 3. We are still all very close. But by my 40's -I had my first at age 19 I was ready to be done with that part of my life. When I was raising my kids my life revolved around them, their needs, etc and I was fine with that. My friends all had kids and we had great times together. But I did not have empty nest syndrome at all. I was ready for my new phase of life. I started my new career about that time too. Now I am semi-retired and loving this part of my life-another new chapter.
The peg might be cushy. But it is still a square peg trying to get pushed into a round hole.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
Cushy berths don't make people happy or give them purpose or meaning.
I think there are lots of reasons to exit stage left. Illnesses and injuries are the main ones.
I have thus far stayed true to my iron will to live, but if I got cancer of the everything I'd do my best to deep six quickly and painlessly.
One thing worth mentioning is that sometimes people's brains have bad chemicals that turn things all wacky in there. And cushy berth or not, life becomes profoundly unpleasant and depressing and filled with anxiety. These folks should be able to cash in their chips if they want too.
IL: you hit the nail on the head:~)
UL: people with depression severe or not need meds & therapy-not death. Now those with alzheimer's etc -I really feel for them. So very difficult.
I think that you should leave that decision up to the person with the depression.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
People kill themselves all the time so that decision is left up to them.
It is illegal to kill one's self. People often screw it up -- with pills or guns. It is messy. There can be no ceremony to it. Your loved ones cannot be present or they could be charged with a crime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
That is why we need doctor assisted suicide.
As K-Von said: "God Bless You, Dr. Kevorkian!"
What about the people who love them and the effect their suicide will impose? Do they count?Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler
Count how? To whom?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
If I had cancer of the everything I hope that the 3 or 4 people who love me would drive me to Kevorkian's suicide motel, put my dog on my lap, and say: "We're sad to see you go, but happy to be here when you free yourself from the pain."
Just because they screwed it up doesn't mean they can't try again. I had a friend whose hubby tried 3x's by the time he did it right.
That is sad. Very sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
It was very sad. She got him help over and over but after 10 years separated from him because the constant drama was bad for herself and their son. Sometimes you can't stop a train from wrecking. The devastation for his family was incredible and still scars people to this day even though it was 40 years ago.
In which states in the USA is it illegal?Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler
I can't imagine a worse use of the court's time than to try to convict a person guilty of killing themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
I thought it was illegal everywhere-I could be wrong but never knew anyone to be taken to court over it. I do know that if you are present at someone's elses you can be charged with a crime.
I just looked it up and it was decriminalized a long time ago.
Causing or assisting suicide is illegal in Pennsylvania. Alcohol is often involved. Depression is an illness not worthy of encouraging someone to feel free to commit suicide. Compassion would demand we try to help them stay alive. It is no different than saving a person from drowning in my book. Those who suffer from cancer......if they feel so inclined will end it before they are incapacitated. The handgun or rifle is the most popular method of choice. It is very hard on the survivors.
What precisely do you get charged with, if you are simply present?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
It's also not the nicest thing to inflict upon the first responders. (And horribly cruel when it's a suicide-by-cop scenario.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Williamsmith
It is my understanding that if they think you assisted in any way there would be a problem and if you were present it might be a problem proving you didn't help. Also some professions might require you to try to intervene depending on what type of license you may hold, etc. I think this would be a very gray area and not one that I would be willing to risk my licenses/professional standing on etc.
Oddly though, in the USA, the prosecution bears the burden of proof....Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
"Duty to act" is pretty carefully defined, it's not grey at all.Quote:
Also some professions might require you to try to intervene depending on what type of license you may hold, etc. I think this would be a very gray area and not one that I would be willing to risk my licenses/professional standing on etc.
My parents definitely entered a happier phase once dad retired. That lasted for 16 years until my mother passed away. Then my dad's happiness level declined significantly and remained there for the last 6 years of his life. After 51 years married to her he just never really got over her death.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
Personally my happiness level peaked in my early 30's and then declined somewhat in 2001 when the dot com crash and 9/11 made me become aware that there's a big world out there beyond my day to day life. A couple of years ago my happiness level came back up quite a bit. I'd be thrilled if it stayed where it is. The idea that it might go even higher when I get to retirement age is awesome.
We had a program called "Coach -Trainee". Basically it matched a veteran officer with a newly graduated cadet from the academy. I had many such arrangements.
One new Trooper in particular was with me on a suicidal subject with a rifle parked off the road in a wooded area during a very cold night. I pulled right in with high beams and takedown lights on him effectively making it impossible for him to see our movements. He was standing outside with his rifle resting on the top of the car.
I told the new guy just to talk to him calmly throu the external speaker while I made my way through the woods and behind him. The new guy did a nice job keeping him talking. I was able to surprise him and take the rifle off him while the new guy made is way to us and tackled him. That was his first successful experience.
After that he was first to the scene of three more suicidal subjects and they all shot themselves right after he arrived. It was incredible really. I suggested he slow down next time and let someone else get there first.
I also remember a violent fleeing felon we chased all over. He was also armed with a 30 caliber lever action rifle. He actually was holding the rifle out the drivers side window and shooting at us. We shot his tires out with a shotgun......an action that was later deemed too risky and for which one Trooper was disciplined. In any event it brought his truck to a halt. He got out, tucked the end of the barrel under his chin and pulled the trigger with his thumb. The gun didn't go off because the hammer fell on the guys zipper on his carhart jacket. Couldn't believe that.......now that was a guy we would have been glad to be rid of.
Bae: I know everything you said and thought of it while I was typing it. It does not matter. I would not risk all to be with someone while they took their own life.
JP1: I read once that the kids leave people often rediscover one another and are happier then ever. Even though we all love our kids and enjoyed raising them, etc there are certain stressors with all of that and once our job is done many people get happier. So happy it was that way for your parents. My Dad was sick so long that once he was gone my Mom was relieved and lived happily for 16 more years. It would have been harder for her if he had died when he first got sick. 14 years of caring for someone is a very long time. I really admire my Mom. I never take for granted life or having my loved ones around. I have had too much death recently from close friends around my age. I know they wanted to live and I am not going to waste what time I have left on petty crap that really doesn't mean anything in the big scheme of things. One of the things I am most grateful for is that I have my health.