Concur.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
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Concur.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
I had to look it up. Wikipedia has quite the saga. It seems like the origin of some evidence starts with Giuliani, which sort of raises a flag. Then bannon has it, then the FBI, then it’s Russian disinformation. The whole story was a little convoluted. Where ever it’s at, I still hope Jim Jordan is torked off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Edit, added link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter...op_controversy
Well, Hunter Biden got caught, and then he paid off his back taxes. Illegal, immoral, unethical - probably all of those. But he DID pay, so I don't see this pardon as that big of a deal. The gun charge is a laugh, even many MAGAs I know thought it was a stupid political stunt by other Trumpers, and would lead to more gun purchase laws and scrutiny - which they are dead set against. Trump hasn't exactly been forthcoming with his tax info, but I do seem to recall something about a couple of his companies being charged with tax fraud. Not saying Hunter's a great guy - but really, don't we have more important things to be getting our knickers in a twist about?
Overall, I'd agree with IL - "Multi-millionaires failing to pay their multi million tax bill. Screw them." AND make them pay it back! How much would it cost to keep Hunter Biden, or Donald Trump, in jail? What is the point? Fine the hell out of them, keep them on automatic yearly audit, make sure they pay their share, and don't tie up more taxpayer money on special guards, special cells, in special prisons, for special criminals. (Yeah, I know it's not that simple, but I can dream, right??)
Edit to add: Rogar - ANYTHING that torks off Gym Shorts Jordan is a good thing! :~)
How is this any different than trump pardoning his sil's father for embezzlement. Hunter Biden was charged because he was Joe's son. He would never have been charged otherwise (like .09% of people have been charged in this circumstance). Actually, we should be more concerned about the felon who is going to be in the white house getting all of his charges expelled. That is the real travesty.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
More “gun laws for thee, not for me” from Democrats:
The chief communications officer of Democratic NY Congressman Joe Morales was caught this morning bringing ammunition into a U.S. House office building. That is…not lawful.
https://www.axios.com/2024/12/02/mor...ted-ammunition
I can understand honestly forgetting to take one’s ammo Out of one’s bag.
But I cannot understand status of the ammo. The headline news says he holds it unlawfully. I’m not sure if that means he owns it unlawfully, or if it’s unlawful the moment he steps into US House building with it.
The overall lesson for me is it is obvious that Democratic operatives who preach about gun control, especially this guy who had to have written hundreds of communications scolding gun owners and the general public about the issue doesn’t believe his own rhetoric.
He lost his job. That is only fair and damage control, too.
Here we see Congressman Morales has sponsored MANY bills about gun control because he is so interested in that topic.
https://morelle.house.gov/issues/ena...nse-gun-reform
This is not a good day for Democrats. Perhaps we shouldn’t vote for them. Oh, wait…
If it is true that all of Hunter’s back taxes and fees were paid even though they were NOT paid by him, OK I accept that. That’s the important restitution that matters most to me. I don’t know if it’s true that every tax charge he racked up was paid, but after Googling, I will accept your word for it. I wish I had his artist gig since one of his buddies paid him $1 million for 10 paintings. that’s nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by early morning
Obviously. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
Yes, it's been pretty interesting following the story in real time, Wikipedia has more of a Cliff Notes version.Quote:
Wikipedia has quite the saga.
The massive amount of money that was spent investigating and charging Trump and the partisanship it created seems all for naught. If Hunter wasn’t pardoned, how much time and money would have been spent?
lets face it, there are two sets of rules. Is it right? Of course not. But all of this hullabaloo obscures what is Important and must be fixed.
Social Security and Medicare, The Deficit, Health care, immigration, the safety of our troops abroad. But they won’t be fixed if they keep throwing up smoke streams and clutching pearls when meaningful enforceable legislation could be passed. Because we all know if a quarter of the things the incoming administration wants to do are attempted, it will all be caught up in lawsuits. But first our senators have to face the music and look at the real problems and come up with even small solutions instead of kicking the can down the road.
The real time and money that we the taxpayers have been saved comes in prosecuting all the forms of influence pedaling that Hunter Biden is probably guilty of. That is big serious stuff. HIs relations with China. His relations with the Ukraine. Etc. Hard to prove stuff, very detail oriented and expensive to go after. Now he’s clean of 10 years of lawbreaking activity, and all of it is not detailed. We don’t even know what we don’t know.Quote:
Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere
Never has there been such a broad pardon coming from the president. Anyone who is comparing this to Trump or Clinton pardons doesn’t understand what 10 years of pardoning of any crime federal level is. I can barely comprehend it, myself.
I will say, though, it’s a great new tool for Trump to take up, this broad pardon caper.
One could speculate on the veracity of any reporting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Attachment 6131
Can the recipient of a blanket presidential pardon still plead the fifth amendment if called to testify at other people’s trials or hearings?
It would depend on the pardon (if pardoned for one crime, but didn't know about another, then yes). With Hunters blanket pardon, the argument is no, but it would still end up being a court case to decide I expect.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
It's my understanding that no they cannot since the blanket pardon removes all threat of self incrimination in any crime they may have been involved in during the specified time period. I think the exception would be if the crime they are testifying about occurred outside that time frame, which probably helps explains the 11 year period covered by this pardon.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
I guess in order to truly find out there would have to be a trial involving the pardonees knowledge or participation, which is why in this case I would expect additional blanket pardons to be issued prior to January 20th, thereby making the possibility of additional trials moot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
One thing that I have heard, is this pardon is for Federal crimes.
That means for instance, if he murdered somebody, while he would be federally immune from prosecution, the State could still prosecute, so he would still have 5th amendment protections. It's not all straight forward.
This is in part why I brought up paying the taxes. Someone paid his federal, did they pay his state?
Yes, you're correct. The President can only issue pardons for federal crimes, state crimes must be pardoned by Governors.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToomuchStuff
In Hunter Biden's case, he would still be able to use 5th Amendment protections in a state court dealing with state charges.
The most egregious alleged influence-peddling seems to have occurred in the 2014-2017 period, which would explain the lengthy blanket coverage. So it would make sense that pardons for various Biden family members and associates would need to be for a similar period if the intent is to bury the whole thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
What a gift to Trump that would be.
I'm no doubt missing the relevance, but why would Hunter be called to testify. Do people expect The Family to go after other members of the Biden family based in something involving Hunter. Since he's already been pardoned for certain crimes, can he refuse to answer, whether it would incriminate him or not and without being in contempt?
Additional investigations would at least give Jim Jordan some job security since it doesn't look like he's up for a cabinet job.
The Biden administration is putting resources toward a legal challenge contesting the Tennessee ban on feeding opposite sex hormones and puberty blocking drugs to children. The Supreme Court is hearing the case today.
Apparently the Biden administration’s argument and that of others bringing the lawsuit is that it is unconstitutional because it is discriminatory on the basis of sex. I don’t see how that is since either sex is treated equally under this ban, but whatever. Misguided folks are going to misguide.
Or, say questioned by Congress. He would still plead the fifth, as the record of his words could be used against him in state court.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
So are we also going to talk about the assorted people trump pardoned to save his own ass or is this thread only for demo-hate? Or maybe we hold off to see if he pardons the traitors who assisted him in his attempt to overthrow the government?
Personally I doubt he’ll do the latter. Those people are of no use to him anymore and he’s not the sort of person who does anything for anyone unless it benefits him in some way.
But I think horrifyingly, he will, as it does benefit him, as it keeps the terrible base he has created supporting him. He's created a monster (or projected his own inner monster out, and amplified it), and now he has to feed that monster.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
Jesse Jackson wrote Grandpa Joe asking for his son and former daughter in law to be pardoned. Same day Grandpa Joe pardoned Hunter. Jesse Jackson’s son and daughter in law went to prison for bribery/corruption charges.
https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/...ust-resign-2d7
Another “why not to vote Democrat:” their appointments.
In the linked article Andrew Sullivan, a gay writer, gay rights activist, and former editor of the New Republic tells how Rachel Levine, the trans identifying Assistant head of Health and Human Services appointed by Joe Biden, promotes a false narrative in the mental health treatment of children and adolescents.
Levine knows there is little to no scientific evidence that medical “transitioning” of children works. The science does not support the gender affirming model of treatment.
Rachel Levine commissioned a thorough study from Johns Hopkins University to review all scientific literature, and then buried the results when the study failed to support Rachel’s preferred narrative.
p.s. This article by Andrew Sullivan is a very good summary of where “the science “ of trans gender medicine intersects with politics in the United States currently.
I found these nuggets worth the read:
”…“LGBTQIA+” billionaires will sacrifice any number of gay kids if it means not being called “transphobic” at a dinner party…”
and his final plea
“…I look around what was once my community and see such incredible cowardice and indoctrination that it makes me despair at what we have become. A movement that began as a crusade for sexual liberation is now sterilizing gay and trans children and removing their capacity for orgasm forever. A movement that began with defending gay men and lesbians is now sacrificing a generation of gay kids at the behest of trans extremists and critical gender theory.
Forgive me for the passion. But this amicus brief set my head and heart aflame. What has happened — what is still happening — is the worst attack on gay kids since Anita Bryant. But this time, the danger is coming from inside the house.”
I see the difference between Trump and Biden to be more of style than substance. When Trump does something reprehensible, he just does it because he can. When Biden caps off a half century career of self-serving lies by breaking another promise, he pretends he’s acting from the highest motives, issuing a smarmy statement about how he’s always made it a rule not to lie to the American people.
Speaking of Trump and Biden, does anything think it's interesting how all the optics since the election are suggesting that Joe really is a lame duck--he's almost in hiding at this point. I'm watching the celbration of the reopening of Notre Dame and Trump is there but Biden isn't. Does anyone else think it's a little strange?
President Biden was in Angola, shuffling around, being led gently by the hand by Angolan officials. He is “ out there” as much as he can be and as much as his handlers think he can handle.Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
So many third world cultures are respectful if not even reverent to oldsters, so that may be serving him well in Angola.That, plus the sweet sweet $billions he brings with him for Angolian projects.
I haven't looked into the archives but I suspect Trump's pardons were probably covered in the 'Why Not To Vote Republican' thread which, by the way, seems to have about 7 or 8 times more responses than this one along with many, many times more hateful comments than this one which seems to be just criticism. Maybe that will change in about 5 or 6 weeks when we see the true scope of pardons issued on Biden's last days in office.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
After the debate fiasco, the Party grandees decided Biden was unfit to run for president (although not, apparently, to be the president). The Harris campaign would only have suffered if he had been more visible. After the campaign, things like the Hunter pardon and his staff “not ruling out” a wave of prophylactic pardons for all and sundry would only seem to encourage the Trump gang to consider similar measures. It’s easy to see how any forward looking Democrat would want to memory hole the guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
You need to look back on how many trump pardoned! trump talking about pardoning the Jan 6 traitors as well. There is no comparison!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd
I found it funny because Jesse Jackson and his kids are all corrupt and here they are asking for a pardon. That's what was funny,.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._United_StatesQuote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
If Wikipedia is to be believed, Trump pardoned, commuted or rescinded the convictions of 237 people. The number for Biden thus far is 6,524.
If Trump's attack dogs do what they claim they will do, I'd give preemptive pardons to Cheney, Garland, and whoever else is on their hit list. I suspect Trump will use any Biden pardons as a scapegoat for any of his, but he will do what he will do regardless.
But but but those are GOOD pardons!Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
That really seems like a lot, tho. The Wikki often has trouble with truthiness.
edited to add: I see that some 6,500 of those pardons were marijuiana users convicted of
federal crimes, so that tracks.
The biggest number of pardons in modern times was implemented by Barak Obama.
He seemed to have a soft spot for terrorists.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
Does he really care about his base anymore though? As someone who views relationships as purely transactional they have nothing to offer him anymore. He never has to run for re-election so if they get upset as they starve he can just shrug his shoulders and call them suckers and losers like he did the military.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tybee
I don’t suppose you have bothered to look into the details of each pardon and assessed how many were people who committed crimes that benefited the pardoner versus how many were pardons due to justice not being served, as was the whole point of pardons becoming a thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
More on Democrats acting badly
there’s a funny little Hollywood story going on right now with George Clooney and Bill Maher. Reportedly, Clooney wants to come onto the Maher show and tell his side of the story about how Barack Obama used him as a tool in taking down president Biden. Supposedly Maher responded something like “my show is not a tool for fallen Hollywood icons to rehabilitate themselves.”
apparently, Clooney’s team made more than one attempt that negotiating specifics to sit with Maher on camera. No dice.
I think George Clooney belongs on The View with his story, those ladies will salivate all over him.
Who cares about this Hollywood gossip garbage?Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
I think it’s funny. And when Barack Obama brought Hollywood into it, and Kamala Harris followed up with her Hollywood shows during the campaign, it was a key part of politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
. But I don’t understand what apology tour Clooney feels the need to conduct because he was a player in getting a non-viable Joe Biden out of the White House. However Kamala Harris did in the election, I’m convinced Biden would’ve done worse.
Rumor has it he's pissed because he did Obama's bidding and only later realized he was being used.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies