middle kiddo and issue with drinking

so i am ready to kinda talk about this. my daughter called me pretty much as soon as i was home and in bed from my retreat and said she wanted to come home because she needed to go to rehab. She came home that night and stayed about a week. we decided that she was probably better with support and not necessarily a rehab center. She was pretty sick for awhile, i had just returned from the retreat and didn't have as much time as i really wanted to be home with her. over the weekend we both felt moderately sick and just were lazy around the house. then this monday she suddenly moved back to her apartment with her boyfriend. i was rushing home to make her dinner and then take her or loan her the car to go to an AA meeting. it sounds like he took her, i am checking in daily. Honestly i am very concerned about her keeping up with not drinking with being back living with him. i told her to come over this weekend and stay or stay during the day so she is not home alone or with roommates that are stressful the entire time. i have a no-alcohol home which helps i think.

So that is what is going on, lots of worry, lots of wanting to tell her what to do, and despite feeling pretty good about my mom skills still having some guilt here. i do tell her things she needs to do however pretty much all my kids have a highly developed sense of passive aggressive. Above and beyond the regular teen/young adult range as i have seen. all my kids have refused all teams, clubs, church groups, etc. vehemently. So i am very concerned she is not going to get to AA groups. for that reason i am thinking we need to work more with a counselor than a group,

Zoe, you said she initially wanted to go to rehab. I wasn't quite sure from your post if you supported rehab or not?

Maybe she needs to go to rehab, I wouldn't scoff at a desire to go to rehab. In fact if someone I cared about with a substance problem wanted to go to rehab, I'd help them check in as soon as possible (as in, oh hallelujah! that's a hallelujah moment there, most of the time with addicts it's denial etc.) .

Maybe a sober living house would be a better living situation, it's often used when people get out of rehab. Now I recommend all that tentatively, as people sell drugs in the parking lots at rehabs, people use in the sober living houses. That's the truth of what goes on, so it's a lot on individual fate, and that is so whether or not one lives in Rat Park, but there is at least the support in rehabs and sober livings that your not supposed to be using, that your there to get better (at least if you are there voluntarily). But rehab especially I think sometimes makes positive changes if it's attempted enough. Health insurance may even pay for rehab these days (because yes it's all entirely unaffordable of course).

Sorry, my heart is with you and her.
Admitting one has an issue is a huge step. Asking for rehab, is a monumental step. What I learned way to late with my son was that I was not a counselor, I was not a Doctor, I was not the support group or his peers. Which he needed those. I was love, I was Enableing.

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Originally Posted by ctg492

Sorry, my heart is with you and her.
Admitting one has an issue is a huge step. Asking for rehab, is a monumental step. What I learned way to late with my son was that I was not a counselor, I was not a Doctor, I was not the support group or his peers. Which he needed those. I was love, I was Enableing.

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There is a lot of wisdom here. I was thinking of commenting on the addiction post in another thread, that I thought the article was actually quite dangerous is that it promoted the idea that you, the person who loves the problem drinker, is somehow responsible for fixing the problem through love.

I don't think that can be done, unfortunately. If it could be done, there would not be many problem drinkers out there, as most have people who care about them very much.

I have known a lot of alcoholics who have been able to find sobriety through AA. Other alcoholics will understand and work with your daughter in a way you cannot. Most counselors will recommend AA, although some work from a different model. Check out the CRAFT model, if you are interested in being involved in your daughter's treatment.

But ultimately, it is up to your daughter to select what program she will follow, or what rehab. Rehab can be great when someone is receptive and willing.

You are going to need support, too. You might want to try at least a couple of Al-Anon meetings, to see what you think.

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Originally Posted by rodeosweetheart

There is a lot of wisdom here. I was thinking of commenting on the addiction post in another thread, that I thought the article was actually quite dangerous is that it promoted the idea that you, the person who loves the problem drinker, is somehow responsible for fixing the problem through love.

I don't think that can be done, unfortunately. If it could be done, there would not be many problem drinkers out there, as most have people who care about them very much.

I have known a lot of alcoholics who have been able to find sobriety through AA. Other alcoholics will understand and work with your daughter in a way you cannot. Most counselors will recommend AA, although some work from a different model. Check out the CRAFT model, if you are interested in being involved in your daughter's treatment.

But ultimately, it is up to your daughter to select what program she will follow, or what rehab. Rehab can be great when someone is receptive and willing.

You are going to need support, too. You might want to try at least a couple of Al-Anon meetings, to see what you think.

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+100

As much love and support you'll get in these forums, a better forum for you in this case is the Friends and Family forum over at SoberRecovery.com

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ly-alcoholics/

Hugs ZoeGirl.

AA saved my life.
For me, that is where the day in/day out living without a drink boot camp happens for me... and the life beyond it - cleaning up the wreckage of the past, living in honesty, taking responsibility for my side of the street, and being of use in the universe.

In no way do I want to discourage rehab, but beware of the Recovery Industry.
I always ran into Treatment to get out of hot spots I had created for myself. Definitely seeds were planted there for me, however I always found my way back to a drink. That's just me though... very often one might need medical assistance to detox and there are lots of people that need to be extracted from their current situation to finally put down the drink.
My Dad paid for 1 rehab stint, then the second one I paid off every month for YEARS! Boy did I feel like a fool writing that check every month with a big old hangover.

I had a moment of awakening of sorts and finally got it that this body I am in on this planet will never process alcohol correctly to let me live a whole life. And the only thing that got me to that point was getting the snot knocked out of me over & over & over again by alcohol.
I was a slave. Being in active addiction was what I would imagine being possessed by the devil would feel like.
When I had that lightbulb moment, I was too afraid that that may never happen again for me.
(lightbulb moment not a requirement for recovery, that's just what happened for me)

I knew Alcoholism was deadly. I watched my mom die with it (it was the cigarettes that took her out, but by then she was drinking milk & rum as that was all her stomach could take).. and she was a beautiful, intelligent, creative woman.
On the other hand my dad got sober via AA when I was 10 - and he buried almost all of his drinking days closest friends due to alcoholism.
Cirrhosis of the liver, one drowned in the bathtub, one passed out and choked on their vomit.

My suggestion for a woman interested in sobriety would be to try a BUNCH of different AA meetings to find some with a solid group of women with extended sobriety.
These are all things that your daughter is going to have to do.
You cannot get her sober.

Above is just what worked for me.
AA definitely has a LOT of fallible human beings in it and you have to beware of the kooks, but there are lots of totally solid people there too not drinking one day at a time together.

And this is just to address drinking issue.
There are other things that can be better addressed by professional counselors.

thank you all, my daughter started off strong in calling and asking for everything and then lost some energy. that is okay except she has not shared much with me and then moved back to her apartment. So i am fine with rehab, but i also see the issues you also are talking about. for counseling i used to take her to a place that was sliding scale at a university but her copay is lower. the insurance has not called her back with listed counselors so i want to work on finding her some options. when my son was going through his stuff i purposely took sick time and put it on record even though i worked a lot because i have a lot of pressure with deadlines, it is really hard for me to get time to help her right now which is my major issue.

i like refuge recovery the best, it is only out-patient in LA right now. it is based on buddhism and the work of Noah Levine. i went out and got her the book the first day she was with me. our local meditation group would love to start a refuge recovery group but we have the experience in meditation and not in recovery. AA seems to be what is in this area and i know a fair amount about them. i did go to one al-anon meeting, didn't seem like what i was looking for at all. i wanted to know how to dispose of all the pot crap i was finding without being at risk since i work in schools. my daughter and i went back and forth for a couple years with the pot and alcohol i would find and dispose of, then talk to her about, back then i got her to counseling for awhile and when she turned 18 her counselor moved on and she decided that counseling was BS. last summer it came to a head with her boyfriend and i told him to leave and she went with him. i was thinking she was doing better there because she seemed so happy to be responsible on her own.

i will keep you updated, i am hoping to have her here on the weekend and do some cooking or crochet.

mtnlaurel, posts like yours have me wishing there was a "like" button here. Thank you for your candid, helpful post.

Can I also gently suggest AA for families again. You also might need to investigate more than one group or attend a number of meetings. Not every meeting or suggestion might work but the support is valuable. The group gave such great help to my best friend whose family had serious alchohol addiction in its background and was affecting her daughter (almost the same age as yours). Even though my friend was a great parent and lawyer, she knew she needed help in learning how to help her daughter and so she went to the family meetings. Her daughter got 2 DUIs and was going to jail. The mother had to let the daughter get into a diversion program on her own and work thru it on her own. It was so very very hard but both of them survived.

The mom learned valuable coping skills from these meetings and got good support from others going thru the same thing.

ZG - The great thing is that you all live in a huge Metro area and I bet your daughter will find all different kinds of AA meetings and you Alanon meetings...
you might even be able to find a group with a Buddhist leaning or other Buddhist practitioners in attendance.
In the last group that I regularly attended before we moved there was a Buddhist and I got so much from her.

Here is the info on Denver Central Office of AA: 303-322-4440
Alanon: (303) 321-8788

Meditation is totally inline with what goes on in AA..

I won't lie to you - there are some dud meetings out there.. so try some different ones before you write it off.
I have even found that the times of the day that meetings are can draw different crowds too.

on the AlAnon thing i think i need to try another group or maybe understand it better. i had an individual in my life that was abusive and AA, but i can separate them. when i went to the al-anon meeting there was nothing about how to help find a treatment plan or when to help and when to back off. it was basically the 12 steps for us. i have an extensive background in similar work but through buddhism (hence the reason i love refuge recovery). rather than enabling too much i feel like i was really good at letting her problem be her problem and not take it personally. i simply had no control or much effect on her. She has not gotten into DUI trouble but i drug her through the bit of online high school she finally did. Mostly the problem we have had is extreme moods and bad boyfriends. she has issues with her siblings due to her moods and boyfriends. i am 90% sure she has an underlying mood disorder, probably bipolar 2 based on when she would still see the doctor.

oh i missed some posts in writing. i found young adult AA for my kid and there are 5 meetings a week. thank you mtnlaurel, this is bringing up some stuff and it is about the first time i have started to cry. i have been dealing with the mental health and school based services for a long time until my son dropped out and took the ged last year. i am capable, well spoken and know how it works, which means i also realize a lot of the limits. i am not in charge of them, just supporting. it has been an exhausting few years. in the middle of it i have been openly criticized by my mom, their dad and previously when i had contact with their grandfather he was pretty horrible. He is the big AA person who is also a flaming narcissist. So i simply don't want to walk into a meeting and be treated as if i am totally new to all of this, or get a whiff of that 'AA is the only way" vibe.

About a year ago my ex pushed very hard to have my son sent to a mental hospital for social anxiety and truancy. He skipped all the current people such as counselor, psychiatrist and school social workers to find a new psychiatrist and then lied to me about it so my son was mute for hours thinking that he was going to be sent away immediately. the dr was professional and figured it but it was still traumatic. Half of it was about our son and half was about a last chance to come after me. so i am very very sensitive to going to someplace like a meeting and how i am treated. if you don't know i have a masters in education, have worked with kids/schools for years and have a reputation in my department of being able to handle the challenging kids/families well. in realizing this (and thank you for letting me share) i can work on it.

okay the people at the first al-anon meeting i tried reminded me of my ex FIL's christmas party. please laugh with this. we went to the party with the 2 kids we had so far and it was a room of the walking wounded. you know when you meet in certain places like a meeting and it is like "hi, my name is __, i was beaten, have depression and am 90 days sober". well his parties were big meetings. then the person asks me how i know the host, yeah. i explained we were the family members and these were his grandchildren. big blank stare let me know that he had no idea that the host had family, grandchildren, anything. sooo, it was actually kinda funny. i feel like i went to meetings for years just by showing up at their house.

Dear Zoegirl - I am sincerely wishing you peace.
I can only relate my direct experience with my alcoholism.

Please know that you are not alone here on this board.

ETA: If I went too hardsell on AA and upset you. I apologize. That was not my intention.
I am a firm believer in attraction rather than promotion.
And I do not think AA is the only way, it just happen to work for me.

I hear you; meetings really vary so much, some are great and some not so great, at least in my experience with al-anon and open AA meetings. You had mentioned AA so I figured that was what your daughter had decided to do, and I did want to be supportive and say that many, many people find recovery in AA, and in my experience with addicted family members, counselors almost always have seemed to recommend AA, and in my coursework in addictions, it is always stated that the numbers are best for AA, the prognosis for recovery. But many people do not like AA and its ilk for a variety of reasons, and there are other options, too, as you state with the refuge program--there are the rehab medical models and other models, and if she does not want to go to AA that in no way means that she is not going to be able to find something that works for her!

And if you have tried Al Anon and it is not for you, then that is very reasonable, too! I guess what I was trying to say is that it is her recovery and you are pretty powerless over it (but that may just be my take on it, my viewpoint, which is shaped by 12 step programs) and I hope you can detach with love from the process of her finding her recovery, as to me, at least, it is one of those "put on your oxygen mask first" moments. But that is just, again, what i would wish for someone I care about (you) and may be entirely inapplicable to your situation.

I am really sorry you are going through this right now.

I've seen rehabs have more of an effect than AA. But lots of rehabs are based on AA? Yes they are, with other stuff as well, they usually have a whole set of classes you take when there - most are AA, some on dealing with moods etc., I'm told equine therapy (with a horse) was uniquely powerful but that was at an expensive rehab that I don't think is affordable (a lot of money was spent, so that now everyone is pretty broke, I think of writing off small loans now as everyone is broke, and I feel bad squeezing blood out of a stone).

you usually don't leave rehab without having been prescribed anti-depressants etc.. (whether that is good or bad). Of course anti-depressants as such (because many addicts are depressed) are probably not the right treatment for bi-polar, so they are probably only too eager to prescribe hastily.

But try whatever you can, if might work, eventually doing enough stuff with the intent to recover is probably what works.

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. But many people do not like AA and its ilk for a variety of reasons

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yea that was the problem, there was a problem that the person I'm thinking about ranges from "spiritual but not religious" to "agnostic", which is a difficult fit for AA. There was the problem that the person started to have deep contempt for the people in AA (for instance most of the women had prostituted themselves, had sex for money for a fix, at one point or another) Now, one shouldn't have contempt, but .... some do. The stories were so extreme that it became only to easy to say "at least I'm not that bad". Still it's been rehabs and sober livings and AA and jail time (even got the AA cake for a year of genuine (though many lie about it) sobriety and then used and landed in jail for DUI a few months later), and still on some pharma instead of harder drugs so .... where's that easy path to sobriety again?

I can relate to both Zoegirl's and ANM's negative experiences with people that have attended AA.
But on the face of it - it doesn't really sound like they were practicing the program as outlined in the text of Alcoholics Anonymous.

That's one of the reasons it's Anonymous - (ETA: so the individual doesn't overshadow the group and its' primary purpose)
I maybe shouldn't have even opened up here, but I couldn't just sit on my hands because I know first hand how painful it is.

I went through a stint where I didn't go to AA, I was so turned off by the AA Clubhouse Blowhard or other things I came up with.
But when I really found my back up against the wall emotionally a few years ago I gave going to meetings another try and it really helped me - and the meetings were exceptional there. I found an early morning meeting that was amazing.

It's been 17 years since my last drink.
On the couple of occasions that I have been prescribed narcotics, I give them to my husband to administer them to me - I've seen way too many people picked off by pharmaceuticals.

Thank you guys, I really don't have that big of an issue with AA, I am really worried that my daughter will not continue the process to get help. And I may have to deal with some of my issues to help her. However I am tired of it all, and I want to go home, and not do my paperwork, and be able to tell my supervisor I need time off without worrying about telling why (or that my program will fall apart in the meantime).

I posted this facebook thing that said there are 2 kinds of tired, one is a need for rest and the other a need for peace. That is very profound, I am working towards the peace.

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Originally Posted by mtnlaurel

I went through a stint where I didn't go to AA, I was so turned off by the AA Clubhouse Blowhard or other things I came up with.
But when I really found my back up against the wall emotionally a few years ago I gave going to meetings another try and it really helped me - and the meetings were exceptional there. I found an early morning meeting that was amazing.

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I didn't join any Buddhist or meditation groups for a long time for the same reason, the experts who pontificated and had no real practice. Then a couple years ago I hit my exhaustion, loneliness, desperate point (most likely part of it was this same kid, hmm) and I went to Dharma Punx. We aren't perfect but it was perfect for me at the time and has been for a few years. Really my life line some days.