Tragic Murder/Suicide in KC

Not sure how much press this story is getting elsewhere, but we aren't far from Kansas City so are hearing quite a bit. Jovan Belcher was a 25 year old member of the Kansas City Chiefs (NFL) who killed his girlfriend with their young daughter in the next room then later killed himself. It's a sad and very hard to understand story. It resonates in our house because earlier this year a couple who was extremely close to us were also victims of a murder/suicide. The link below is to a short story from CNN that I think is very perceptive in how the author tries to make some sense out of some disturbing trends in our society. Every time we've debated gun control over the years I always seem to come back to the same point, its not the guns per se that we need to address, its the pressures society puts on the people using them and the negative and even desperate situations people get into when they feel there is no other choice. I'm not looking to restart that debate, I just thought this article was insightful. I'm going to call my son now to make sure he knows its ok to not be a rock solid macho man all the time...


http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/03/opinio...html?hpt=hp_c1

http://youtu.be/B1ijkccD9_8

There is certainly truth in what Bob Costas said, or rather what Jason Whitlock said that Costas quoted, but that sentiment does absolutely nothing to address, much less attempt to improve, what is happening in our society. We have created a culture in which violence is accepted and even (I think) expected. Jason Whitlock got part of it right, the problem is that he is only looking at a symptom, not at the disease and what causes it. We can ban everything from assault rifles to ball point pens, but until we deal with the causes of violence the best we can hope for is to slow the train down a little. To turn it around is a much more complex issue than the over-simplified, but politically expedient, idea that banning anything will change society.

The theory is that an NFL linebacker couldn't simply have slain his girlfriend and child with his bare hands? He was 6'2" tall and 228 pounds of muscle...

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Originally Posted by The Storyteller

http://youtu.be/B1ijkccD9_8

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You know I've pretty much sworn off getting involved in these discussions on this forum, but that's not enough. Now I have to stop watching football too?

Yes, he could have slain her with his bare hands. But its just so darned easy to pull that trigger in a fit of rage. If you're getting punched around, you have time to scream and hopefully run, or somehow fight back. With a bullet.....that's usually all she wrote.
Guns in the hands of reasonable people might not be bad.........but in the hands of someone who has a short fuse..........

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Originally Posted by CathyA

Guns in the hands of reasonable people might not be bad.........but in the hands of someone who has a short fuse..........

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... and all 'roided up...

I thought it was a pretty ballsy move by Costas, considering half the rednecks in the country (ie, Cowboys fans) were likely watching. He should run for office.

It also struck a nerve with me after watching all day all these moron sports commentators spew the same crap they always do about such things. Costas' take was refreshing.

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Originally Posted by bae

The theory is that an NFL linebacker couldn't simply have slain his girlfriend and child with his bare hands? He was 6'2" tall and 228 pounds of muscle...

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I'll take that any day if the alternative is a loaded gun, having looked down the barrel of a couple in my less mellow youth.

I used to spend a lot of time helping people in abusive relationships escape the attentions of their abuser.

I saw ...horrible things... that still disturb my peace. Done by hands, blunt objects, fire and chemicals, sharp objects, and firearms.

Tools aren't the problem. Violent, abusive people are the problem.

But, sometimes in the hands of the victim of such violence, tools can be pretty helpful.

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Originally Posted by bae

Tools aren't the problem. Violent, abusive people are the problem.

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Yes, yes yes. Domestic violence is exactly what this incident is. I should hope the entire male sports world sees this, and stands up against it. And, guns need to be very very hard to get a hold of, especially for abusers.

It's not linear, this DV/guns thing. The confluence of abusive individuals, usually male, with a tool designed specifically & only to be a deadly weapon, combined with a social structure of male supremacy, add the omnipotence of the pro football dude, and a cultural history of it's okay to hurt women, equals a dead women, and sometimes their abusers too. And an orphaned child.

Many places to intervene in the system.

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Originally Posted by redfox

Yes, yes yes. Domestic violence is exactly what this incident is. I should hope the entire male sports world sees this, and stands up against it.

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My perception is that a significant portion of the male sports world encourages objectification of women, as do some notable segments of the modern music industry. There's a major cultural problem there.

Which is why I have raised my daughter to be able to ...deal with such things.

Odd that Bob Costas didn't comment on the tragic compound bow murder-suicide that happened Friday in Wyoming.

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Originally Posted by bae

My perception is that a significant portion of the male sports world encourages objectification of women, as do some notable segments of the modern music industry. There's a major cultural problem there.

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I think there are many issues.

But gun availability is one of them. Silly to pretend it isn't.

I hope that this will turn on a light for at least some abusers and their victims and cause both sides to get some help. That would be positive, but I won't hold my breath. Bob Costas' opinion on how things should be done means no more to me than George Clooney telling me who to vote for does. The cult of celebrity was likely one of the causes of the tension that caused this young man to snap. If we can reduce the glorification of violence and the objectification of (especially) women in movies, on TV, in games, in music, in sports and in just about every other form of 'entertainment' we have it will have a bigger impact than trying to limit the availability of any type of object.

I kept hearing all over the radio today that if the FB player hadn't had the gun, they would have BOTH been alive. We do not know that. Period. He could have used a sharp knife from the kitchen, a blunt object, whatever, to kill the GF. And who is to say that he wouldn't have maybe gotten drunk, and decided to drive on the wrong side of the wrong road to do himself in - or some other way of taking himself out that might involve others.

Blaming this solely on guns is the wrong tack to take. It's domestic violence. Add that the fellow was an NFL player, and the history of pro sports players going bad...to say this is all about guns ignores a whole lot of other things.

I was watching the Walking Dead and didn't hear what was said until afterwards, but have the writer of the original article and Bob Costas somehow forgotten what happened with OJ Simpson. To say that if no gun was involved they would both be alive today is moronic to the extreme.

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Originally Posted by Tradd

Blaming this solely on guns is the wrong tack to take. It's domestic violence. Add that the fellow was an NFL player, and the history of pro sports players going bad...to say this is all about guns ignores a whole lot of other things.

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One story I read said that he was dealing with concussion/head injuries. If so this is the third suicide of an NFL player in the last year and a half. Dave Duerson, Junior Seau, and now this guy. Considering the NFL is already being sued over the way they have handled concussion related issues over the years, this is not going to help in their defense.

I have known three people in my life that I don't think would be dead if there hadn't been a gun in the house. One was a teenage friend that was very angry with his parents for grounding him, when they left the house to go to church - he shot himself. A neighbor who was furious with her DH for filing for divorce. She shot him in a rage and then turned the gun on herself, I think, after realizing what she had done. Left their son an orphan.

I think that if these people had had time to cool off and think a little, without a gun being near and handy, they would be alive today. That's my take on it anyway....

I don't think guns are the problem; they just make an angry reaction quicker. I think we live in a world of violence - it is everywhere. Humans continue to kill each other via endless wars. DD works with abused children - violence is rampant in that world, too. On those rare occasions when I happen to see prime time TV shows, they are often full of violent acts or scenes; I find them so disturbing that I have to leave the room though dh sometimes seems mesmerized by it. Ditto violent movies and video games. It makes me wonder about the images that float around in the minds of the children we are raising who happen to see this stuff. It just goes on and on...

ITA with Pinkytoe and many others of you..however, I don't think it's all-or-nothing on guns. They simply are way too available -- it should be harder to get them. The DV problem needs to be addressed down many paths, including violent media and the ways women are perceived in our culture among others.. One thing Costas said really resonated; that this isn't the first time this has happened, and at what tipping point are we really going to actually DO something about it?

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Originally Posted by pinkytoe

On those rare occasions when I happen to see prime time TV shows, they are often full of violent acts or scenes; I find them so disturbing that I have to leave the room though dh sometimes seems mesmerized by it. Ditto violent movies and video games. It makes me wonder about the images that float around in the minds of the children we are raising who happen to see this stuff.

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And yet one (inadvertant?) "wardrobe malfunction" caused CBS to be fined more than half a million dollars plus whatever they and the FCC spent in hearings and lawyer's fees.

I'm not saying nudity or intercourse are any more appropriate to TV during "family" hours than domestic violence. I just find it odd that you can show a couple beating the daylights out of each other or one killing the other, with all kinds of weapons and blood on display, but you can't show them in more loving circumstances. American Puritanism. It makes for an interesting life.

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Originally Posted by CathyA

Yes, he could have slain her with his bare hands. But its just so darned easy to pull that trigger in a fit of rage. If you're getting punched around, you have time to scream and hopefully run, or somehow fight back. With a bullet.....that's usually all she wrote.
Guns in the hands of reasonable people might not be bad.........but in the hands of someone who has a short fuse..........

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Perhaps if SHE was the one who was armed for self-protection the situation would have turned out very differently. I'm not saying that throwing more firearms into the mix would make things better, just that she and her child would likely be alive. Of course if she knew he was abusive to begin with then she should have left long ago to protect her child even if she wasn't willing to protect herself. Not blaming the victims, just saying...