Recovering hoarders?

[Teacher Terry]

The only way I have been able to keep my weight off is to weigh daily and count calories, etc. As soon as i stop doing that I get fat. So I did that a few times and no more. Some might think it is excessive but it works for me. So counting I do not do but it works for UL. WE are all a little crazy in our own ways) I am glad you took your GF to see it because it has helped to shape who you are.

[herbgeek]

But having a spreadsheet with all my stuff in it, t

I suppose it works for you. My perspective from what you have shared here is that you are just as attached to things as your hoarder family, albeit from different angles. For a hoarder, its having such an excess that things get in the way of people. For you, it seems you have removed so many things from your life its getting in the way of people. Different sides of the same coin. I've heard all kinds of challenges in reducing what you own, even giving away your kayak. I think what folks mean about a middle path is enjoying the material things in life that support your goals. Not obsessing over them, or endlessly counting/cataloging them, but allowing them to fade into the background. Because things aren't that important.

As you say to Zoe Girl, you decide, but just throwing it out there for consideration.

[Ultralight]

I suppose it works for you.

So far so good!

My perspective from what you have shared here is that you are just as attached to things as your hoarder family, albeit from different angles.

I dunno about that. I am not attached to much that I own.

For a hoarder, its having such an excess that things get in the way of people. For you, it seems you have removed so many things from your life its getting in the way of people. Different sides of the same coin.

I dispute this. Here is why:

Yesterday evening my significant other came over. We had a little fish fry and walked my dog through a nearby park. Then we enjoyed a couple slices of watermelon. If she had not come over I would have probably gone to an atheist meeting I usually attend every other Monday.

Tonight my friend Jeff comes over. We are going cycling and then grabbing some Indian food. We do this once per month. If he was not coming over I would have gone to a Recovering From Religion support group I attend once a month to just be there as people make their way to atheism.

Tomorrow I attend my voluntary simplicity class with a dozen other folks who are interested in simplifying their lives. I am facilitating the class. I have facilitated two of these classes before. I am still in contact with many of those folks. I also took this class before then. I still hang out with folks from that class at least once a month.

Thursday and Friday I will probably just chill out with Harlan.

Saturday I am going to an atheist meditation event. I will also probably spend time with my significant other.

Sunday I am taking a walk at a park with a minimalist friend of mine who came to some life-altering realizations recently and wants my opinion of the situation. Our minimalist meeting is not for another couple weeks and she does not want to wait.

As you can see, I am very social. On June 18th I host an atheist canoeing trip. I host three or four of these each summer.

These are just a handful of examples. So no need to worry about me being anti-social or some such. De-stuffing my life has given me more space to be social!

I've heard all kinds of challenges in reducing what you own, even giving away your kayak.

I have reduced what I own to what I need and some of what I really like. And I am not giving away my canoe. I am selling it. I don't have a place to store it around here, certainly not at my apartment. And the long drives to get it and then go to the lake suck much of the fun out of fishing. I hate driving! This and other costs were really squeezing me. So in place of fishing I have gotten more into cycle commuting and I found a way to cycle to one of my favorite fishing spots, where I will fish from the bank.

I think what folks mean about a middle path is enjoying the material things in life that support your goals. Not obsessing over them, or endlessly counting/cataloging them, but allowing them to fade into the background. Because things aren't that important.

I do enjoy the material things in life that support my goals. I have fished like a wild man for the past 4 years. I have been cycling to work and all over the place since I moved to my new place. I use the W/D and the dishwasher at my apartment. I use the AC! haha

Endlessly counting? LOL

I add or subtract something to my spreadsheet like once or twice a month, maybe.

Stuff doesn't fade into the background if:

1. You just let it pile up. Then it closes in on you.
2. If all the stuff you have is the stuff you really like and use often. Then it is in the forefront of your favorite activities.

As you say to Zoe Girl, you decide, but just throwing it out there for consideration.

Bring up anything you like. Make suggestion if you want. I am open.

[Ultralight]

Btw, why is it telling that I don't like people?

The research on Compulsive Hoarding Disorder shows that people who suffer from this mental illness tend to attach emotionally to physical possessions rather than to people/relationships they have with people.

My parents are both clannish. They hide themselves away from most people, except a few folks in their little town. They are happier (or seemingly so) to spend time restocking their camper van with stuff from Wal-Mart or with going to some far-flung place to shop for some odd item or just churning their hoard in one way or another than they are to engage socially, in a genuine and deep way, with friends or even family.

[Chicken lady]

Actually, I have deep and rich emotional relationships with people. But no, not very many people. I'm simply a strong introvert. People in quantity or duration exhaust me. But I would far rather spend the day on my porch with one good friend than doing anything that involves leaving home and getting a new stuff. I had a fantastic time at my daughter's wedding Saturday night, but I avoided most of the guests I didn't know (groom's side) and it took me until yesterday afternoon to recover enough to go to the feed store and have to speak to the guy who sells me feed.

i do enjoy spending time with my stuff when I am recovering from people though. The stuff is so quiet and still and demands so little of me. The stuff I have emotional connections to is related to people though. I am emotionally connected to the stuff because it triggers a sense of connection or cascade of thoughts or memories related to a person.

Example - my great grandfather died when I was ten. I remember him only as an old man who hugged me and made me laugh and told me stories. But I have his scythe. And I love using it, because it makes me think of him as a young man on his farm and the stories I heard.

[Ultralight]

This is all very intriguing to me.

Actually, I have deep and rich emotional relationships with people. But no, not very many people. I'm simply a strong introvert. People in quantity or duration exhaust me. But I would far rather spend the day on my porch with one good friend than doing anything that involves leaving home and getting a new stuff. I had a fantastic time at my daughter's wedding Saturday night, but I avoided most of the guests I didn't know (groom's side) and it took me until yesterday afternoon to recover enough to go to the feed store and have to speak to the guy who sells me feed.

i do enjoy spending time with my stuff when I am recovering from people though. The stuff is so quiet and still and demands so little of me. The stuff I have emotional connections to is related to people though. I am emotionally connected to the stuff because it triggers a sense of connection or cascade of thoughts or memories related to a person.

Example - my great grandfather died when I was ten. I remember him only as an old man who hugged me and made me laugh and told me stories. But I have his scythe. And I love using it, because it makes me think of him as a young man on his farm and the stories I heard.

I am also an introvert. Lots of social interaction will exhaust me as well. I then like to go do something alone -- fish, a bike ride, or read a book. Those are examples.

You say you like to spend time with your stuff to recoup from being with people. This is what I'd like you to illustrate more for me. Most introverts need time alone to recover from socializing. Why would you recovery be more about having than doing or being?

I can only really speak for myself, but stuff does not seem to trigger a sense of connection.

Brian Johnson, former singer for AC/DC is a major car collector. I saw a show he hosted about cars. He got into an old, old car that was the same model as his first car. He got this faraway eyed look on his face and said: "It is all coming back to me now... me mates from school, Billy and Sam..."

A place can trigger memories for me, or at least emotions. And activities certainly can.

At the moment I am getting into joyriding on my bike. When I see my bike at home I think: "I'd like to pedal down to the river and ride the path."

But the bike is merely a conduit. It is essential but I have no real emotion for it.

For me I see the map as mostly insignificant in comparison to the territory.

[Chicken lady]

I don't really want to "do" much when I'm tired. So maybe someone would watch a movie, but that's more motion and talking, and people-y stuff.

I washed all the table cloths and folded them up and washed the mugs from brunch and thought about the people who made them and the people who used them, and ordered them pleasingly in my cabinet, arranged all the not-yet-opened wedding gifts attractively, set the flowers out around the house, and washed the mason jars and lined them back up in the cabinet, and it all gave me a sense of order and comfort and serenity. Spending time with stuff.

another day I might turn out the yarn cabinet and sort skeins and daydream about projects, and then choose something, settle the rest back, and sit on the porch and knit.

i like to rearrange the dolls and knick knacks when I dust, to change out seasonal decorations, to have things around me I find interesting and attractive. I don't like bare walls and empty spaces.

i would also like to read a book, sometimes when I don't have a new book though, I enjoy browsing through old favorites to choose something. I like the tactile sensations of a real book. I love being in the library surrounded by books too, but then, libraries require leaving home, and are so often occupied by people.....

and that car thing, that's exactly it. The thing triggers the memory so clearly.

[Ultralight]

I washed all the table cloths and folded them up and washed the mugs from brunch and thought about the people who made them and the people who used them, and ordered them pleasingly in my cabinet, arranged all the not-yet-opened wedding gifts attractively, set the flowers out around the house, and washed the mason jars and lined them back up in the cabinet, and it all gave me a sense of order and comfort and serenity. Spending time with stuff.

another day I might turn out the yarn cabinet and sort skeins and daydream about projects, and then choose something, settle the rest back, and sit on the porch and knit.

i like to rearrange the dolls and knick knacks when I dust, to change out seasonal decorations, to have things around me I find interesting and attractive. I don't like bare walls and empty spaces.

i would also like to read a book, sometimes when I don't have a new book though, I enjoy browsing through old favorites to choose something. I like the tactile sensations of a real book. I love being in the library surrounded by books too, but then, libraries require leaving home, and are so often occupied by people.....

and that car thing, that's exactly it. The thing triggers the memory so clearly.

When you are tired, like really tired, from socializing, do you ever just take a nap?

Why do you suppose you don't like bare walls or empty spaces?

Do you feel this way outdoors too?

The book thing is interesting. I am a librarian by trade. And I knew lots of folks in library school that loved real books -- not Nooks or whatever. But me though, the book is just a conduit for a story. I like real books because I can focus on them better. But when I am done with the book I have virtually no interest in it anymore.

What makes you want to keep a book?

[Chicken lady]

Sometimes I nap, but often I really just want quiet and stillness while my brain conciously processes things. Meditation is too much quiet and still ness - so "puttering" with stuff works well.

Outdoors is FULL of stuff! Trees and rocks, and water and plants and even bugs and birds. I love outside stuff too! Weeding is just as good as puttering, but physically more tiring.

i like to re read stories, like remembering experiences or revisiting a favorite place or activity (ever want to ride the same trail again?). And I am very sensory, I love the tactile properties of books.

[Ultralight]

Sometimes I nap, but often I really just want quiet and stillness while my brain conciously processes things. Meditation is too much quiet and still ness - so "puttering" with stuff works well.

Outdoors is FULL of stuff! Trees and rocks, and water and plants and even bugs and birds. I love outside stuff too! Weeding is just as good as puttering, but physically more tiring.

i like to re read stories, like remembering experiences or revisiting a favorite place or activity (ever want to ride the same trail again?). And I am very sensory, I love the tactile properties of books.

For a moment, just as a thought exercise, tell me... Do you think hoarding makes you happier?
Forget about your hubby's issue with it. Forget about your kids' issue with it. Forget about society's, social workers' psychologists' problems with it.

If you could hoard to your heart's content with all the storage bins, barns, garages, closets, and extra-rooms would you do it?