How many more?

[Ultralight]

This nation is in real trouble. I am saddened, deeply saddened.

[LDAHL]

This nation is in real trouble. I am saddened, deeply saddened.

Yes. "The best lack all conviction and the worst are full of passionate intensity".

I'm not sure this problem has a law or policy solution. It feels more like a cultural thing.

[Ultralight]

Policy involves culture. Culture involves policy.

They are intertwined. As complicated as it may be, I think both need to be addressed.

The truth is that I am rather depressed about the state of things -- our policies and our culture. So, so many problems...

[LDAHL]

I see policy as being downstream of culture. You can pass all the laws you like to limit drugs, guns, or your particular concept of "hate", but if the greater culture isn't buying it, they'll either be ignored or circumvented.

I'm not sure our problems are so much worse than they've ever been. I think, for instance, you'd be hard put saying we're in a worse situation than the 60s/70s.

[catherine]

Yes. "The best lack all conviction and the worst are full of passionate intensity".

I think one of the big reasons Bernie was/is such a hit, especially among young people is because he has a LOT of commitment and passion. Otherwise, I think you're right. There's passion in all the wrong places.

[Ultralight]

I think one of the big reasons Bernie was/is such a hit, especially among young people is because he has a LOT of commitment and passion. Otherwise, I think you're right. There's passion in all the wrong places.

There is also passion in the right places, and massive amounts of it.

I think Bernie was a hit among young people because he listened to us. But also because we have not been fully hoodwinked by the corporate oligarchs who tell us socialism "doesn't work."

Many of us have been to socialist nations and seen how it works quite well in Sweden, Finland, Norway, Costa Rica, etc.

[catherine]

There is also passion in the right places, and massive amounts of it.

I think Bernie was a hit among young people because he listened to us. But also because we have not been fully hoodwinked by the corporate oligarchs who tell us socialism "doesn't work."

Many of us have been to socialist nations and seen how it works quite well in Sweden, Finland, Norway, Costa Rica, etc.

I agree.. I meant there's lots of passion among his Bernistas and Bernistos. And thankfully I see groundswells of passion in countercultural/eco/permaculture movements, like Joanna Macy's The Great Turning and as described in Paul Hawken's Blessed Unrest.

[LDAHL]

There is also passion in the right places, and massive amounts of it.

I think Bernie was a hit among young people because he listened to us. But also because we have not been fully hoodwinked by the corporate oligarchs who tell us socialism "doesn't work."

Many of us have been to socialist nations and seen how it works quite well in Sweden, Finland, Norway, Costa Rica, etc.

Well, his "passionate intensity" has certainly seemed to shift HRC's lack of all conviction more toward the entitlement state, as witness her "Free College, Dude" proposal.

[Ultralight]

Lots of developed nations with high standards of living have free college, dude.

They just don't have any freedom.

Norwegians have to wear white or gray -- no bright colors are allowed by law. Costa Ricans are not permitted to go to their own beaches for fear they might meet American tourists and suddenly yearn to be free. And the people of Denmark are not allowed to be sad, ever.

[LDAHL]

Since Bernie began spinning his tales of the magical Nordic kingdoms, some (including the Danish Prime Minister) have taken exception to his Utopian claims. I'm sure we will always have something to learn from Finland or Singapore, but I have to assume their value as benchmarks require a good measure of qualification.

http://www.investors.com/denmark-tel...g-it-socialist


/https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ers-describes/