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Thread: Recovering hoarders?

  1. #511
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    The friend who wanted to help clean up the studio -- I wish she instead had offered to help in other ways. Such as "every time you have a carload of stuff for goodwill call me and I'll drive it in for you." Or "I'll bring my truck over and haul your big pile of trash to the recycling for you."

    Something practical and helpful that stayed out of the decision making process. This would be true help.

  2. #512
    Senior Member herbgeek's Avatar
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    I think it's sad that people can't just be who they are without a lot of armchair psychologizing by other people. (Also, books, animals, and things aren't always taking your inventory, judging, and gossiping about you. Win, win, win.)
    I think Jane means you UL.

    Chicken Lady doesn't need to be picked apart in public by you, just because you are curious/nosy as to what makes her tick. She's under no compulsion to answer your invasive questions, though she has been very gracious in doing so.

    So if we're exploring questions, as you say UL, why does someone who is a minimalist and says they don't shop feel the compulsion to count and inventory what they own every week or two? If you know you haven't added, why keep counting? Did you know that counting things over and over is part of the OCD spectrum? Why are you so OCD? Do you think if you had better friends growing up, you wouldn't be so OCD? Should someone treat you just like a child and tell you that you are being silly for counting? Should someone who knows better take away your spreadsheet?

    Just exploring here.

  3. #513
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    Sometimes my friend brings me food, because she lives alone and likes to cook. That is very helpful. She also gives me objective feedback on my progress/backsliding as she is not here often and able to look at the physical environment with no emotional involvement. And she participates in my occaisional need to have a conversation with a normal human about wether or not something should be thrown away without laughing or looking at me like I am an idiot. (I think that is helpful, although sometimes I set something aside to figure out "when Toni comes" - which could be a month as I never invite her over, she just shows up sometimes.) I am pretty good at hauling the stuff to goodwill.

    i don't think I've ever been called "gracious" before - lol. I'm guessing it's my irl "thanks for stopping by, now when are you leaving?" Vibe. Ultraliteangler started this thread, so I feel like we're in his house. His house, his rules. You don't like it.... Also, he makes me think.

    i am am dissapointed at not getting responses to my reflections on introversion and hoarding though - i really do want to know why you seem so intent on tying the two together and painting them with the same brush.

    another thought along those lines - I have two daughters. Both are what I would call high extroverts. The older one is a minimalist, married to a "keeper" (I don't think he's a hoarder, but he's only 25...) who loves to entertain. The younger one has such a strong need to be around other people that she sometimes lets them treat her badly and forgives easily. When she had trouble lining up a college roommate because her friends were moving off campus (I can't move off campus, I'll be away from everything) I suggested a single and she was horrified. She chose a potluck transfer student instead. That is the one who worries me because I see strong hoarding characteristics in her relationship to stuff. My uncle who hoarders is also very social.

  4. #514
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Okay, herbgeek -- watch and learn!

    Quote Originally Posted by herbgeek View Post
    I think Jane means you UL.
    She can mean me if she wants. My response is still valid.

    Quote Originally Posted by herbgeek View Post
    Chicken Lady doesn't need to be picked apart in public by you, just because you are curious/nosy as to what makes her tick. She's under no compulsion to answer your invasive questions, though she has been very gracious in doing so.
    This is a thread about recovering hoarders. We talk about symptoms, signs, causes, reasons for, and other issues surrounding hoarding and hoarders, and how this might relate to simple living.

    I agree. She can stop answering questions. No problem there. That is her choice. I also agree that she is quite gracious and -- I would say -- civic minded to answer questions, dispute assertions, and explore ideas here. I certainly appreciate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by herbgeek View Post
    So if we're exploring questions, as you say UL, why does someone who is a minimalist and says they don't shop feel the compulsion to count and inventory what they own every week or two?
    Ummm... I don't count things every week or two. Recently I bought a new bike because my old one was uncomfortable and I do a lot more riding now. But that was Monday. I have not gotten around to adding it to my spreadsheet yet, though I will by tomorrow night. I only adjust the count in my spreadsheet when I add or subtract something, which is not often because -- as you noted -- I don't really shop and I am a minimalist.

    Quote Originally Posted by herbgeek View Post
    If you know you haven't added, why keep counting?
    Uhhh... I don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by herbgeek View Post
    Did you know that counting things over and over is part of the OCD spectrum?
    That would not surprise me, but again -- I don't count things over and over. That actually seems like it would be really weird and pointless.

    Quote Originally Posted by herbgeek View Post
    Why are you so OCD?
    This is a loaded question. Imagine if I asked you this: "Why do you kick puppies?"

    See how the question implies something that has not yet been proven?

    Quote Originally Posted by herbgeek View Post
    Do you think if you had better friends growing up, you wouldn't be so OCD?
    I think that better friends growing up would have had a massive effect on the trajectory of my life. But the OCD thing that you have dreamed up about me does not fit the bill.

    Quote Originally Posted by herbgeek View Post
    Should someone treat you just like a child and tell you that you are being silly for counting? Should someone who knows better take away your spreadsheet?
    If someone wants to treat me like a child then they can if they want. That would be a dumb *ss waste of their time though. If someone wants to take away my spreadsheet -- and I assume you mean steal it -- then that would be unfortunate. But I don't have many things, so I could make a new one in like 20 minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by herbgeek View Post
    Just exploring here.
    Good!

  5. #515
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken lady View Post
    i am am dissapointed at not getting responses to my reflections on introversion and hoarding though - i really do want to know why you seem so intent on tying the two together and painting them with the same brush.

    another thought along those lines - I have two daughters. Both are what I would call high extroverts. The older one is a minimalist, married to a "keeper" (I don't think he's a hoarder, but he's only 25...) who loves to entertain. The younger one has such a strong need to be around other people that she sometimes lets them treat her badly and forgives easily. When she had trouble lining up a college roommate because her friends were moving off campus (I can't move off campus, I'll be away from everything) I suggested a single and she was horrified. She chose a potluck transfer student instead. That is the one who worries me because I see strong hoarding characteristics in her relationship to stuff. My uncle who hoarders is also very social.
    I have reflected on your questions about introversion and hoarding.

    Here is a thought: Maybe introversion can make hoarding worse, or make it faster -- like an introvert has more time to hoard than someone who is out and about interacting with friends often.

    But you may be right, and perhaps introversion is not a causal factor in hoarding. This is possible.

    My mom is extroverted. I thought that perhaps she was an exception who missed that trait but had all the others.

    Then I thought about my significant other, who I suspect is a hoarder. She is also extroverted. '

    So I just don't know. I think after another decade of research we'll have a lot more knowledge about hoarders. So much is still speculative.

    Tell me what makes you see hoarding characteristics in your daughter's relationship to stuff.

  6. #516
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    She acquires easily - if you offer her something, she will pretty much take it. She always rescued her siblings cast offs, she anthropomorphizes, she has difficulty discarding things because they might be useful or because they have an emotional connection to a person for her, she has the creative/artistic trait going which leads to hoarding of supplies, she loves to shop (I do not love to shop because stores are full of people) she has difficulty making decisions about things, and she keeps her environment messy and cluttered.

    Because she is a young woman, being out and about and having many friends contributes to her acquiring - so many opportunities to shop, so many gifts....

    also so random thought - my other two children had "comfort objects" as babies and outgrew them. This one never attached to anything. Her family has always been her "comfort object" to the point where going away to college was a significant traumatic event.

    You say your mom is extroverted, but she doesn't want people in the house. Do you think an outside observer would consider her an extrovert based on her behavior? I lean toward unwanted social isolation being an effect of hoarding, rather than introversion being a cause. I think being an introvert and hoarding might be like being male and ADD.

  7. #517
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Yeah, that is a tough situation with your daughter. What can be done?

    My dad does not want people in the house. My mom does not mind as long as she thinks they won't judge her. She does not want me in the house because I judge her. She also thinks I am going to take pics of the place and turn her in -- then the house could be condemned and/or I would get her dogs taken away.

  8. #518
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler View Post

    ....Then I thought about my significant other, who I suspect is a hoarder. She is also extroverted...
    Aha, here is a revelation.

    ...Tell me what makes you see hoarding characteristics in your daughter's relationship to stuff....
    No, you tell US what makes you see hoarding characteristics in your SO's relationship to stuff.

  9. #519
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    I am worried about my Significant Other and her clutter, her relationship to stuff.

    Her closets are overflowing. She has piles and piles of clothes in her basement. She cannot park in her garage because it is so full of stuff.

    She has a bedroom ("the paper room") where she keeps all sorts of papers, some that need keeping (legal documents, etc.) but also so many that don't need keeping. The room is dedicated to this paper clutter.

    She also buys massive amounts of groceries and loves to shop, especially for groceries.

    She has problems concentrating and difficulty organizing things. She likes crafts, though she does not do them much, rather she buy and keeps lots of crafting equipment.

    I do not like to go to her house because the clutter drives me crazy. I have tried to talk to her about it.

    I explained that being a minimalist with no clutter has made me 20% happier in life. This is huge for someone like me who was born with the blues.

    She had a "packing party" which I attended. I wrote about it on here.

    But she ended up throwing some stuff away, donating other stuff, and giving away a few things. But she also just unpacked and kept tons of stuff and then just stuffed many of the boxes we all packed for her back into her closets.

    I am obviously frustrated about the situation. And I do note the irony that I have somehow ended up with a significant other who is at least a major clutter bug and is possibly a compulsive hoarder.

    The thing is, I am not willing to give up that 20% happiness increase. I just can't. I need it. I need it to keep on keepin' on in life.

    So if we stay together, it'll be me living alone and her visiting me at my place in perpetuity.

  10. #520
    Low Tech grunt iris lily's Avatar
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    This reminds me of the radio interview I heard last night from Terry Gross on NPR. She interviewed an author who wrote a book about her marriage to a Navy guy. The author said (paraphrasing) "Because my dad was gone half of my life working on an oil rig, I knew i didnt want to marry someone who was gone from our family."

    So, she married a Navy guy, having met him just after he completed officer training school. Yeah, that worked out well! Not. At least the stress and problems of his absences gave her somethng to write about, there is that.

    And here you are UL, obsessed with people who collect, people who hoard. And there you are, in this relationship.

    What a waste for both of you. You will never respect her. She needs to get out.

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