The slow fade?

[creaker]

My guess is your father doesn't understand that particularly liberal mindset that the NRA is evil. He probably knows that the NRA is the pre-eminent firearms safety training source and has been for several generations. I suspect that liberal liberals often don't see the entire picture.

That comes from a mindset that attaches people and behaviors to particular labels with no consideration as to the individuals included.

[Ultralight]

Welp... I think I sped the slow fade up to an instant black-out.

My dad and I had an all-out argument -- raised voices and all -- yesterday at what was supposed to be a nice family lunch at my sis and BIL's house.

I tried to stop it, I really did. I tried to change the subject. "How about that Trump!" (I thought politics would be an less difficult topic!)

I tried to joke it away. "Why don't we talk about something uplifting, like taxes or the flu?"

I tried to brush it under the rug. "Let's just let this topic go..."

But for a variety of reasons the argument happened.

My parents were getting on me about not liking my job and not having any better job prospects. Then they were getting on me about not having enough saved for retirement.

It felt like I was in high school again, like I was a teenager. hahahaha

Then when the topic came to the $3,000 Roth IRA my dad gave me... yowzah. That is what sent it over the top.

My dad opened the IRA with me and told me that the guy at the investment firm would help me invest it wisely. The guy did not. I tried and tried to explain to him what I was supposed to do with this IRA. Eventually I ended up putting it in something called a "life cycle," which basically means the money slowly dries up until there is nothing left of it.

So I have been losing money in this investment for about 18 months, since I opened it.

I told my dad this because he was putting the pressure on.

He was like: "Why didn't you do what I told you with it?!"

I was like: "I tried."

He flipped out. I mean flipped out. I thought he was on the verge of a second heart attack.

Then I just said: "Okay, I guess we're going to have this argument. So let's get it over with. Let's rip off the tape!"

My mom was like: "He just had a bad rep at the firm. He had a bad rep, that's all, a bad rep!" She was trying to smooth it over.

But I just went on to remind him that I forewarned him before opening the IRA that I was not good or informed about investing. I said: "You are putting your money at risk. You may want to reconsider opening this IRA for me."

As usual, he did not listen to me. So I let him open it. After all, he is an adult.

In the matter of minutes everyone was yelling except my pregnant sister. Everyone was cussing up a storm. I told my dad I'd put the IRA back in his name.


I threatened to leave. My dad threatened to leave.

Then he got up and stormed out. My mom went outside to try to talk him into staying. No dice.

My sis went out to try to talk him into staying. No dice.

He said to her: "I will never help him again. Your brother crossed the line. You will never be able to convince me to go back in there with him. I am done with him!"

For good measure I yelled: "And don't give me anymore stuff. I don't want it!"


From about age 17 to around 30, give or take, I was essentially estranged from my dad. I am thinking this incident will mean we will be estranged again.

While the incident was depressing I reflected and I think this might be for the best.

I told my mom: "No great loss. Dad and I don't like each other anyway. And I don't like walking on eggshells around him. He ain't the kind of person I'd hang around by choice with anyway."

So yeah, that is where we're at.

[Chicken lady]

I'm sorry ultralite. We don't get to choose our family.

[Ultralight]

I'm sorry ultralite. We don't get to choose our family.

Thanks. The depressing part is easing up. And now I am just trying to focus on the positives that come from this development.

[beckyliz]

I think we all have an image in our minds as to what we want our relationship with our parents to be. I'm willing to bet that 98% of the time, that image and reality are not the same. In you and your Dad's case, the image and reality are wildly and widely different. You've come to the conclusion (and rightly so) that you and your dad can't have a relationship ("we don't like each other anyway"). As helpful as it is to come to that realization, it's so hard. I imagine it's very hard and sad for your mom, too. She loves you both. Be good to yourself, keep your boundaries, grieve as long as you need to.

[Ultralight]

I think we all have an image in our minds as to what we want our relationship with our parents to be. I'm willing to bet that 98% of the time, that image and reality are not the same. In you and your Dad's case, the image and reality are wildly and widely different. You've come to the conclusion (and rightly so) that you and your dad can't have a relationship ("we don't like each other anyway"). As helpful as it is to come to that realization, it's so hard. I imagine it's very hard and sad for your mom, too. She loves you both. Be good to yourself, keep your boundaries, grieve as long as you need to.

Thank you. Very kind.

[Teacher Terry]

so sorry to hear this but it looks like you tried to stop this really, really hard. Can't you just move the IRA into something that will earn a small amount and not lose $? I don't think you have to be good with investing to do this. There should be plenty of safe options. I never give my adult kids advice on their life unless they ask. It is something I learned from my wonderful parents.

[freshstart]

beckyliz hit the nail on the head

rather than lose the IRA money, can you move into something like an S&P 500 index fund? This is easy to do, is good for money you don't need for years, you can move it and not touch it for decades. You can also take it out of the company your dad chose and move it to something with low fees like at Vanguard.

[ApatheticNoMore]

yea the 3k thing sounds really manipulative, if your dad wants to give you a gift of 3k then he should just do that, but gifts don't really have strings (and what weird strings, that your investments must be profitable within 18 months, AS IF that was even in one's control, investments aren't always profitable - in fact sometimes pretty much none of them are as the markets are down - if the bond or stock or whatever market is up and one's fund is still losing money it might be a bad fund but so what, get out of it perhaps, but who hasn't made a dumb investment if they have ever invested anything?).

If he wanted something sure not to lose money then T-Bills . But as is it's just a weird manipulative gift with strings that is disempowering and reduces one to a child.

[Ultralight]

...move into something like an S&P 500 index fund...

This is what I will do.