President Romney?

[peggy]

"President Obama's youth in Moslem schools in Indonesia?"

Ok, well, I'm out of this ridiculous discussion. Sorry I even entered it. And here I thought I was in a serious, thoughtful conversation. Guess not!

[Gregg]

When does life begin, when does a fetus become sentient and does life suddenly become more valuable when the being is self-aware? Are there any deeper questions? The abortion debate is quite literally trying to answer (at least part of) the biggest one of all, "what is the meaning of life?" Conception, sentience, live birth... Which is the starting point of life? Two are easy to define, the other one causes all the problems.

Overwhelming opposition to late term abortions, for any but the most extreme medical reasons, says to me that most people believe a fetus is able to perceive its environment by that time and that makes it more "valuable" in most people's eyes. It's earlier in a pregnancy where the heated debate takes place. I think Peggy brought up an excellent point regarding IUD's. If life starts at conception then an IUD is a form of abortion. There's a lot more to it than teen girls in suburban malls needing abortions of convenience.

Abortion was never an issue in my house because it was not a decision either DW or I could have lived with. A very large part of that choice is based on our own version of morality. It's between us and has nothing to do with the government and we do not wish to include the government. We also do not wish to force our moral decision making process on anyone else. We're not qualified to answer the deep questions for others, they need to think for themselves. We've pretty much settled in to feeling that birth control should be very easy to get, abortions should be very hard to get but available and a candidate's stand on Roe v. Wade will probably not influence our voting whatsoever. YMMV.

[Zigzagman]

Ziggy - here's my take on the Christian right (of which I am one): They are people with firm, studied beliefs, beliefs stemming from family teaching, church teaching, etc. It is not that we don't think for ourselves but we think alike due to our faiths and upbringing. The Republican party best supports OUR beliefs. It is not a Christian Taliban, that is ridiculous - women are not flogged, caned, or second class citizens. Many of us have been brought up on these beliefs since infancy. The things you learn as a small child generally stay ingrained and don't leave. Take for instance, Pres. Obama's youth in Moslem schools in Indonesia....Hmmm...Ask DearLeader how many states in the union..he once said 57 ...hmmm

I understand. I went through the same indoctrination myself but I guess because I left "home" early in my youth because of the Army that the traditional rituals just didn't stick as I became a young adult. I don't care what anyone believes in term of faith but I do have a problem when government is inclined to base laws and political decisions on a particular belief. They simply do not represent me at that point - and by golly, I deserve equal representation.

I personally think that the Christian religion discriminates against women is many ways and cannot understand why any woman would continue to support that belief system.

As far as the GOP and religion - it is simply about doing what ever it take to get votes. Pandering. Using wedge issues to excite the masses and get elected. These policies are putting the U.S. on the path toward becoming a "Christian" nation.

Just leave opinions of faith as a personal decision and respect others people's equal right to think differently about their faith or not at all. Laws and governance based upon faith in my mind is not secular government - which I think was the message of our founding fathers.

I'll leave it at that because it is what it is but I hope at some point when we take about government and leadership that it leaves religious faith out of the conversation.

Peace

[pinkytoe]

Just read in our local paper that Guv'ner Goodhair Rick Perry is definitely considering a run for presidency once legislative matters here in Texas are wrapped up. I have no doubt that his handlers are busy cleaning up any issues. It is well known that he and Obama can't stand each other so it will be interesting.

[janharker]

Alan, I got married in Indiana almost 6 years ago. Blood test not required.

[Zigzagman]

Just read in our local paper that Guv'ner Goodhair Rick Perry is definitely considering a run for presidency once legislative matters here in Texas are wrapped up. I have no doubt that his handlers are busy cleaning up any issues. It is well known that he and Obama can't stand each other so it will be interesting.

I imagine Sister Sarah will also joining the field soon - this reminds me of a SNL skit. It will be funny to hear Perry defend being last in almost every category in the nation.

I don't really think that Texas politics will come across well in states that have higher than a 30% HS graduation rate. Maybe a Palin/Perry ticket - wonder who will be on top and who has the biggest gun?

Just when you thought the clown car was already full...

Peace

[Alan]

Sorry, my mistake. Just goes to show that you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet.
http://family-law.freeadvice.com/fam...stmarriage.htm
http://usmarriagelaws.com/search/uni...ts/index.shtml

[peggy]

I imagine Sister Sarah will also joining the field soon - this reminds me of a SNL skit. It will be funny to hear Perry defend being last in almost every category in the nation.

I don't really think that Texas politics will come across well in states that have higher than a 30% HS graduation rate. Maybe a Palin/Perry ticket - wonder who will be on top and who has the biggest gun?

Just when you thought the clown car was already full...

Peace

Yep, from succeeding from the Union to leading the Union! HELLO..!

[freein05]

Zig said "I don't really think that Texas politics will come across well in states that have higher than a 30% HS graduation rate. Maybe a Palin/Perry ticket - wonder who will be on top and who has the biggest gun?"

I think Palin has the biggest gun and will be on top. She also has bigger hair than Perry.

[mm1970]

If life starts at conception then an IUD is a form of abortion.

This is where it really goes to the extreme for me. I've always been a "shades of gray" girl, and never a black/white girl. I will also admit to being a recovering Catholic/now atheist.

Yes, at the end of the first trimester, you can see a human form. My own son's 10wk ultrasound had recognizable head, and little limbs. But was he a human? No. Would I have grieved if I'd miscarried? Probably.

But an IUD being abortion? I had 3 pregnancy losses last year (I was 40. I knew what I was getting myself into). I simply cannot believe that life begins at conception. I mean, you don't even know you are pregnant until after implantation. I was certainly sad and disappointed at the 6 wk pregnancy loss. But the earlier ones? I have a really hard time believing that ANYONE can say that life begins at conception, or even implantation. Can I pick when it begins?

For me, maybe. For others. No.