Prayapolooza in Houston

[The Storyteller]

Storyteller, your lengthy diatribe in no way "shuts me up" or provokes the "cat got your tongue" reaction. You have a very similar approach to Loosechickens...

And like they always say If you can't dazzle em with brilliance, baffle em with bull@#@!

Perry's day of prayer draws some religious, cultural protests - Anti-gay group is hosting the exclusively Christian event here - Prayer: Political nature of the event is criticized
Houston Chronicle (TX) - Thursday, June 9, 2011
Author: PATRICIA KILDAY HART , AUSTIN BUREAU

[Lengthy articled making the point it is the same article LC posted that you claimed was from some off shoot or blog, snipped for brevity]

patti. hart @chron.com
Edition: 3 STAR
Section: A
Page: 1
Record Number: 5011664
Copyright (c), 2011, Houston Chronicle. All Rights Reserved.

Check that... Houston Chronicle, Section A, Page 1.

AKA: the front page.

Again, go to your local library and check the June 9th Houston Chronicle. You will find the article you have been quibbling about.

I don't understand why you find that in the least baffling.

[redfox]

Yes, but the problem with the SPLC is that they depend upon donations to fund their operations and there is lots of money to be made by defining an enemy and exploiting the generosity of others. Back in the mid 80's the SPLC's entire legal staff quit over the center's business model of defining and exploiting high payback cause's and dis-regarding issues that would be of greater benefit to the communities they espouse to represent.

Race/Gender/Religious hustling is a very lucrative business and the SPLC is good at what they do.

Yeah, capitalism sucks.

[Alan]

Yeah, capitalism sucks.

I would disagree. Capitalism is the most successful economic model the world has ever known, and it is morally neutral.

The SPLC, as it has evolved, may use capitalistic tools such as marketing in their "watch" publications and sales in their fund raising activities, but they're not morally neutral as much as they are morally manipulative.

[loosechickens]

Well, personally, I'm happy that the SPLC is watching the hate groups, doing their best to curtail their activities by going after them in court, etc. When I look at the folks they are aligning themselves against, if that is "left wing", then I'm happy to be one, too. One would think that even most rightwingers in this country would find it distasteful to be aligned with these haters, but.......

Hate group listingsMain article: List of organizations designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center as hate groups
The Southern Poverty Law Center is named as a resource on the Federal Bureau of Investigation web page on hate crimes.[80] The SPLC maintains a list of hate groups defined as groups that "...have beliefs or practices that attack or malign an entire class of people, typically for their immutable characteristics." It says that hate group activities may include speeches, marches, rallies, meetings, publishing, leafleting, and criminal acts such as violence. It says not all groups listed by the SPLC engage in criminal activity.[5]

The SPLC reported that 926 hate groups were active in the United States in 2008, up from 888 in 2007. These included:

186 separate Ku Klux Klan (KKK) groups with 52 websites
196 neo-Nazi groups with 89 websites
111 White nationalist groups with 190 websites
98 White power skinhead groups with 25 websites
39 Christian Identity groups with 37 websites
93 neo-Confederate groups with 25 websites
113 black separatist groups with 40 websites
159 Patriot movement groups
90 general hate groups subdivided into anti-gay, anti-immigrant, Holocaust denial, racist music, radical traditionalist Catholic groups, and other groups espousing a variety of hateful doctrines,[81][82] which maintained another 172 hate websites.[83] Only organizations active in 2008 were counted, excluding those that appear to exist only on the Internet. In addition, SPLC reported there were 159 Patriot movement groups active in the United States in 2008, up from 131 in 2007, with at least one such group in every state. They maintain 141 websites.[84]

[Alan]

One would think that even most rightwingers in this country would find it distasteful to be aligned with these haters, but.......

Are you implying that those of us who lean right "are" aligned with "these haters"?

[redfox]

I would disagree. Capitalism is the most successful economic model the world has ever known, and it is morally neutral.

The SPLC, as it has evolved, may use capitalistic tools such as marketing in their "watch" publications and sales in their fund raising activities, but they're not morally neutral as much as they are morally manipulative.

I was being flip with you - I am not actually against capitalism per se; it's a specific system that is exquisitely well designed for it's desired outcomes. I have some quarrels around some aspects of the design - a much larger convo than this post!

One of the basic misunderstandings in the GP about not-for-profit organizations is that they can't/don't/shouldn't make a profit. These assumptions are false, which I think you are aware of, but many aren't. It's what the org DOES with its profit that's regulated.

So, my question for you is this: what do you mean by moral neutrality or moral manipulation? As a long time non-profit development professional what I see is that the SPLC is spot on about how they make their case, to whom, and why. I've not seen a NFP organization that I would label as morally manipulative, regardless of where their mission falls in the political spectrum.

This isn't a 'gotcha' question, I'm seriously curious about your view, as in all my years in the NFP world, I have never heard this said before.

Thanks in advance!

[Alan]

So, my question for you is this: what do you mean by moral neutrality or moral manipulation? As a long time non-profit development professional what I see is that the SPLC is spot on about how they make their case, to whom, and why. I've not seen a NFP organization that I would label as morally manipulative, regardless of where their mission falls in the political spectrum.

This isn't a 'gotcha' question, I'm seriously curious about your view, as in all my years in the NFP world, I have never heard this said before.

Thanks in advance!

I wouldn't think of lumping all NP's together but in the case of Morris Dees and the Southern Poverty Law Center many people, including the Southern Center For Human Rights, agree that Morris Dees is a con man and a fraud. One of SPLC's own attorneys admitted that the center's policies are designed to "cash in on black pain and white guilt".

With a world class direct-marketing strategy and a penchant for creating fear in the minds of potential donors, I'd be skeptical of of their morally manipulative work which all too often consists of selling fear. But, as always, maybe that's just me.

[Zigzagman]

Before we get one foot nailed to the ground debating whether AFA is a hate group or just another "Christian Family Organization" (there seems to be hundreds of these groups, they must be quite lucrative?) remember that Harry Truman said that his Grandfather told him whenever a fellow tells you how good and holy he is you’d better run home and check that the smokehouse is locked.

For Pete’s Sake, do not put another dumb hypocritical greedy Texan in the White House. I don't really care how much he prays and such.

Peace

[redfox]

Before we get one foot nailed to the ground debating whether AFA is a hate group or just another "Christian Family Organization" (there seems to be hundreds of these groups, they must be quite lucrative?) remember that Harry Truman said that his Grandfather told him whenever a fellow tells you how good and holy he is you’d better run home and check that the smokehouse is locked.

For Pete’s Sake, do not put another dumb hypocritical greedy Texan in the White House. I don't really care how much he prays and such.

Peace

Wow, he's a hunk. Who is he?

[redfox]

I wouldn't think of lumping all NP's together but in the case of Morris Dees and the Southern Poverty Law Center many people, including the Southern Center For Human Rights, agree that Morris Dees is a con man and a fraud. One of SPLC's own attorneys admitted that the center's policies are designed to "cash in on black pain and white guilt".

With a world class direct-marketing strategy and a penchant for creating fear in the minds of potential donors, I'd be skeptical of of their morally manipulative work which all too often consists of selling fear. But, as always, maybe that's just me.

I'm a donor to SPLC, and have met Mr. Dees. I have great regard for the work the center does. Do you have some citations for your claims?
And, I'd still be most interested in hearing more about the morally neutral/manipulative discernment you make.
Thanks!
R