Entitlement feeling

[Gregg]

The only big benefits, benefits that may be far more than what was paid, that exist are for the elderly, and they keep moving them further and further out of reach (ie keep raising the retirement age, and I expect more, I fully expect my generation will be on deaths doorstep before we can collect social security).

70% of people that pay income taxes take the standard deduction. Not everyone is getting itemized deductions. That's just the select 30%. We are the 70%.

That is actually how SS was set up to work, intentional or not. When it started the average retirement age was 65 and I believe the average life expectancy was around 67. The program is in dire straights because retirees are drawing benefits far longer than was ever planned. Bring the life expectancy from the 80's back to the 60's and the problem will solve itself. For some reason that doesn't seem to be a popular political solution.

There are a lot of people in your 70% that would benefit from itemized deductions. My guess is that, as often as not, they don't take them because they are intimidated by the tax code. If you really look at the deductions that can be taken they overwhelmingly favor middle income earners and small businesses. Look at something like a home office deduction. I take one every year and I bet Warren Buffett does, too. That savings of a few thousand dollars means a great deal more to me than it does to him.

[ctg492]

Are people who are about to receive "help" or are already getting some, required or offered classes on how to budget?

I watch the family I posted about waste beyond belief, yet I believe they honestly do not have a clue on simple or frugal living. It is actually a sad situation with imo no future hope of ever getting a head in life or changing the ways.

[puglogic]

ctg, I think that would be a fundamental part of any reform I would do, if I were Queen. Of course that would add to the bottom line for that program's budget (for trainers, materials, etc.) and that too would be criticized, I'm sure. But wouldn't that be for the best - to help people see how far they can stretch their dollar with some basic lifestyle and "process" changes? There will be some that will just shrug it off, I'm sure, but I know there will also be plenty who will find that incredibly useful, and it would carry over into their regular, non-government-supported lives.

Maybe what the nation needs is a Social Programs Reform Czar, whose job it is to unearth creative and helpful solutions to our bloated and abused systems.

On teaching people, I've often thought that one of my roles in my community is helping people learn simple living and budgeting tactics that aren't painful but offer big rewards. I just don't think people have a clue. Maybe that's my destiny, and maybe that's why I found this online forum to begin with, who knows?

[iris lily]

ctg, I think that would be a fundamental part of any reform I would do, if I were Queen. Of course that would add to the bottom line for that program's budget (for trainers, materials, etc.) and that too would be criticized, I'm sure. ...

That stuff, training programs, exist up the wazoo now, don't need to wait for you to be Queen. Do you honestly think they don't?

I can't tell you how many "cooking for food stamp recipient" programs exist around here, just to name one area of life skills.

I tire of the meme that this society doesn't fund programs for the poor. We throw tons of money at it. We take on programs recommended by the social workers. That they aren't effective to eliminate poverty isn't my fault.

The poor will always be among us.

[freein05]

Boy you have a big heart iris.

[puglogic]

That stuff, training programs, exist up the wazoo now, don't need to wait for you to be Queen. Do you honestly think they don't?

There is a HUGE difference between having all of these resources out floating on the Interwebs for people who are motivated enough to find them, and making benefits contingent on taking education in these areas and on living within certain boundaries. (Naturally, I'm talking about benefits for the poor primarily.)

One of our most successful local organizations offers single moms terrific benefits in schooling, jobseeking assistance, etc. --- all contingent on things like agreeing to be trained in home/life economy, not moving in a baby-daddy, staying employed, etc.

That's what I'm talking about, and it rankles my lefty-liberal friends that I'm in favor of restrictions like that. If those kinds of stringent requirements already exist in federal programs, I'd like to know about it. Then I can stop trying for that tiara

[decemberlov]

There is a HUGE difference between having all of these resources out floating on the Interwebs for people who are motivated enough to find them, and making benefits contingent on taking education in these areas and on living within certain boundaries. (Naturally, I'm talking about benefits for the poor primarily.)

One of our most successful local organizations offers single moms terrific benefits in schooling, jobseeking assistance, etc. --- all contingent on things like agreeing to be trained in home/life economy, not moving in a baby-daddy, staying employed, etc.

That's what I'm talking about, and it rankles my lefty-liberal friends that I'm in favor of restrictions like that. If those kinds of stringent requirements already exist in federal programs, I'd like to know about it. Then I can stop trying for that tiara

I agree Puglogic. Having these things available and making them mandatory in order to still receive assistance are very different. Who knows maybe that would be the deciding factory between people staying on assistance and those that say "screw that, I'm not letting them tell me what to do. I'm gonna go get a job so I don't have to take these bs classes". Who knows....

[awakenedsoul]

Are people who are about to receive "help" or are already getting some, required or offered classes on how to budget?

I watch the family I posted about waste beyond belief, yet I believe they honestly do not have a clue on simple or frugal living. It is actually a sad situation with imo no future hope of ever getting a head in life or changing the ways.

That's the sad thing, the cycle. There are many books at the library that can teach you how to plan budget, and save money. I think it's really an internal shift. I like your idea of mandatory classes.

[decemberlov]

Also, I've talked to some people older than me that said some of these classes, budgeting, explaining interest on credit cards etc were mandatory classes in high school. They definitely were not in mine. I think these classes should be given before people find themselves in extremely difficult situations.

My 13 year old daughter and I joke that she is part of the "deeerrr" (as in "duh") generation (her joke, not mine lol). Not that my generation is any better

[Maxamillion]

Here's a question: If poor people are getting so much money in benefits then...why are they still poor?

I think the classes are a great idea. Nothing like that is offered around here.