Round 3 - Who do you think did better? Won?

[peggy]

LOL Peggy , I admire the way you never let simple facts get in the way of your passion. One day I'd love to sit around a fire with a pitcher of margaritas and discuss the issues of the day with you.

And I just love how you keep thinking you are talking to people with short term memory loss!
You supply the margaritas and I'll supply a brief history lesson on the Iraq war.

[Gregg]

So what you're saying, Gregg, is a candidate should be held accountable for every word they say, right?

I actually think candidates ARE accountable for their words and for their actions if they get elected. Its old fashioned, I admit. I also don't think any of them deserve a free pass just for belonging to a particular party...no matter which party that is. Does it mean anything that you are expending so much effort cutting down your candidates opponent rather than expounding his virtues? No need to answer, its a rhetorical question and another old fashioned idea anyway. Guess I'm just stuck in the past today.

[Alan]

And I just love how you keep thinking you are talking to people with short term memory loss!
You supply the margaritas and I'll supply a brief history lesson on the Iraq war.

That would be fun! I'd bet that "The World According To Peggy" would be a lot like "$#*! My Dad Says" on steroids, and all for the cost of a few margaritas. Count me in!!

[ApatheticNoMore]

I actually think candidates ARE accountable for their words and for their actions if they get elected. Its old fashioned, I admit.

It's actually never been true in our lifetimes (that's pretty old fashioned I guess!), not at the Presidential level, if there was a time it was true, it's not in the last century. Woodrow Wilson ran on keeping the U.S. out of World War I. How did that work out? Actions I hold them accountable for. Words well, I think they can signal very dangerous things with their words, Romney originally tried to run as more pro-war than Obama and is now flip flopping (real surprise for that, Romney, flip flopping, no you don't say). What they signal on the environment is horrible. But on some issues I suspect they might not be as aren't always as bad as their signals (R's always run pro-war and don't always govern that way). Probabilities are they *ARE* as bad as their signals, but likely does not equal certain. Actions on the other hand, when you have 4 years of record, is hard to argue with. Oh and I don't know what it means when they run on no plan that anyone can pin down at all and nothing at all (Romney's tax plan).

[Alan]

And lets not forget about the kill list.

Update: The "kill list" has been updated. It is now the "disposition matrix". http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...a4b_print.html

"Kill List" sounds so...violent!

[ApatheticNoMore]

Update: The "kill list" has been updated. It is now the "disposition matrix".

take the red pill

[Gregg]

It's actually never been true in our lifetimes (that's pretty old fashioned I guess!), not at the Presidential level, if there was a time it was true, it's not in the last century.

Obviously not everyone here will agree with this, but I think accountability, like responsibility, starts at the individual level and works up. It doesn't come trickling down from some kind of magically formed national consensus. I do try to hold elected officials accountable in that way. You can, too. If enough of us do that then it will have some impact. Until then politicians running for office can, and will, say pretty much anything they think their base wants to hear without any real fear that their words will come back to haunt them if their actions don't live up to the promises. As far as the Presidential level vs. any other level, its as simple as the bigger the office is the bigger the promises have to be.

[Alan]

take the red pill

but...but...I love fabricated reality!

[peggy]

Obviously not everyone here will agree with this, but I think accountability, like responsibility, starts at the individual level and works up. It doesn't come trickling down from some kind of magically formed national consensus. I do try to hold elected officials accountable in that way. You can, too. If enough of us do that then it will have some impact. Until then politicians running for office can, and will, say pretty much anything they think their base wants to hear without any real fear that their words will come back to haunt them if their actions don't live up to the promises. As far as the Presidential level vs. any other level, its as simple as the bigger the office is the bigger the promises have to be.

But Gregg, there isn't a single issue that Romney hasn't changed his position on, several times even and within the span of a few days/weeks, depending on who he is talking to. Not a single one! Really. Try it. Think of a serious issue facing this country and you will find several positions from this guy.
He has also lied about his taxes before and is probably lying now as he is so paranoid that someone will see his returns.
These aren't speculations. They are truths. You know it and I know it, yet, you are not holding HIM responsible.

Maybe Obama wasn't able to completely fix everything wrong with the country/world in under 4 years as he hoped, but he has achieved, or really tried to achieve the goals he said he would. The fact that he got an obstructionist republican congress whose only stated goal was to see him fail was a miscalculation on his part. He actually believed congress would come together whoever won and work for the good of the country. Yeah, right, like the petulant republicans would let that happen! Frankly, I'm surprised he was able to achieve what he did considering the republicans very best efforts to see the country fail.
Even now, as the economy is slowly limping back, the republicans can't poor mouth it enough.

And yes, I do believe we have discussed President Obama's achievements many times here. I have personally championed his record many times. Considering what he has had to work with, I think he is a great President!

[Gregg]

But Gregg, there isn't a single issue that Romney hasn't changed his position on...

And there are very few issues that I feel the same way about today that I did in the past. War (against unless attacked), abortion (not for me, you decide for you), and domestic partnerships (none of the government's business) are about the only issues I can think of where I've always had the same stand I do now. I don't hold changing their mind against anyone just for the sake of doing it. Times change.

And yes, I do believe we have discussed President Obama's achievements many times here. I have personally championed his record many times. Considering what he has had to work with, I think he is a great President!

Yes you have peggy. Considering the passion you feel in mounting his defense I think you should vote for him.