Marriage issues - wonder if others can relate

[kitten]

Great suggestions, guys.

Hm, I wonder now about the gut flora thing. Also interested in the diabetes suggestion.

As for how I respond - I usually get quiet and ride out his moods. He'll either snap out of it on his own - suddenly become very up and full of energy - or he'll kind of grin and bear it for my sake, because we're supposed to be having a nice time. We live in a big city without a car, and can walk most places.

Sometimes, though, when it's cold and windy or raining, I want to take a cab home. He'll refuse, saying we can walk the distance, it costs too much, he can't stand the drivers, etic. But at some point during the walk - let's say I give a sigh or shiver or something - he'll suddenly turn and flag down a cab in a fit of anger - like I've forced him to do something with my passive-aggressive behavior. Whereas I haven't been doing that at all - it's really been colder than a you-know-what lately. So I sighed, so sue me! Then he realizes he's been an asshole, and as we're sitting in the cab, he'll turn and look at me with this frozen grin on this face. Like - "See? I'm trying to be cheerful. I'm a nice guy, right? Got you the cab you wanted? Happy now?" But the whole time he's really furious that had had to cave in to me.

He gets up at 1 am for his super-early work shift, and when he's off, like during the holidays, his brain just gets him up at the same time anyway. So there we are, both awake at 1 am, and he's singing and dancing around the bed and cutting up. I'm feeling really relieved the darkness has receded. But it always comes back. I've wondered if it could be a manic-depressive thing, but the manic episodes are few and far between, and pretty short-lived.

We argue about money, and that's tough, but he's right. I'm kind of a spendthrift, and I start shopping more when I'm unhappy or under stress. This just makes my situation with hubby worse. I've often been grateful for the fact that he's a tightwad - if we were both misery-spenders, we'd really be in the hole. We have some retail debt that we've been knocking down steadily (on a program called AFS that works well for us) and just put a big chunk on what we owe the IRS. Getting there.

The worst of our tense moments seem to happen when I complain about my job. He starts snapping at me to just do this, or just do that, or "don't worry about those piss-ants," lol! His advice is actually pretty good. But as they often say in mars/venus books, at these times I just want him to empathize with me and soothe me. He says, "I'm not mad at you. I just get angry at these people destroying your peace of mind. They're not worth it." And he's right. But his support is somehow not supportive. He wants me to buck up and get through it and get over it. I'm not so hot at that.

We live in a tiny studio apartment, so not much time to be apart when we're home - it's a source of angst for sure. The bed is a queen, but with the cat - who somehow unfolds to four times her standing-up size when she's lying down - we can barely move once we're settled in for the night. He'll get up multiple times to go to the bathroom - I've wondered if he has a prostate thing, but he says it's all the water he drinks on the Jenny program.

Bunnys - "I'd be depressed too" about the Jenny Craig food - touche! Just the smell of it when he's microwaving it makes me wanna hurl! He seems to like it though, lol

And he can NEVER get comfortable, at least not until he's really out like a log. That'll be about four hours in. So he's operating on incomplete sleep all the time.

I know he's suffering. I hate to see it. I'm trying not to concentrate exclusively on what he's doing to me. But yeah, we're both in hell right now.

One of the saddest things is how we don't nourish each other any more, when we're just together. We walk everywhere, and sometimes it's a fifty minute walk to get somewhere, and we'll just be walking silently. We can't think of anything to say to each other. He likes to hold hands, though. But I miss the days when we chattered non-stop. These days, though, my mind is always somewhere else - and I think his is, too.

Steve, good point about the emotional divorce idea. Yeah, I really think this has already happened, sadly. I don't think it would be impossible to come back from it. We love each other enough to make it work, if some other things could fall in place. The question is, do I want it to?

I've wondered if I'm just not the sort of person who should be married. If I can't take the good with the bad, maybe I don't deserve any of it. I'm kind of depressed, and always have been. I'm not a good person for someone who needs a sparkly partner, a person who "loves life" or whatever. I've never been that way. I really think he needs an injection of positivity, something wonderful and bright. He's too young to slide into old-man curmudgeonhood. It's just heartbreaking to see this.

Thanks again for the suggestions to find a good physician who can get to the bottom of the physical issues. Maybe it will all work out. I really appreciate your responses, guys!

Thanks for the congrats too!

[redfox]

Sleep apnea should be considered. 4 hours to get settled means a sleep disorder. It took 10 years of sleep misery before I was diagnosed, and I was a b*tch much of the time. And JC food is expensive!

Good luck. Please consider finding a therapist.

[larknm]

DH does this every winter, it lasts months. He's already on Prozac, but I think a light box would help too. He wouldn't hear it (or anything else) from me or anyone else and he says he loves cold weather and hates sunight. He considers not geting help "independence." The rest of the year, he's great.

[Stella]

I'm with redfox. I think a sleep disorder has something to do with this, and I'm sure getting up everyday at 1AM isn't helping. I'm a ***** too when I am really overtired.

You sound depressed also. Are you getting help for your depression?

I've wondered if I'm just not the sort of person who should be married. If I can't take the good with the bad, maybe I don't deserve any of it. I'm kind of depressed, and always have been. I'm not a good person for someone who needs a sparkly partner, a person who "loves life" or whatever. I've never been that way. I really think he needs an injection of positivity, something wonderful and bright. He's too young to slide into old-man curmudgeonhood. It's just heartbreaking to see this.

Some of this paragraph sounds like the kind of dramatic thinking I have sometimes fallen into when I am depressed. It really isn't helpful to repeat stuff to yourself like, "Maybe I don't deserve this if I'm having a hard time dealing with the bad stuff". Everyone has a hard time dealing with bad stuff. If we didn't, it wouldn't be bad stuff. It's the nature of the beast. Take a deep breath and remind yourself that struggling is a normal part of life. You don't have to be perfect, happy and bubbly all the time to be a worthy person. No one is happy, perfect and bubbly all the time. No one.

Also, I think for the most part it's not helpful to say, "I think he'd be better off with..." You can help him in some ways, but let him make the decisions about that. I hope this doesn't come across harshly, but I have found it kind of irritating and controling in past relationships when people get too heavily invested in deciding what I need and it has never turned out especially well when I have tried to do it to others. If you don't want him, be honest about that. Don't paint it like you'd be doing him a favour. He's an adult and can make that decision for himself.

Some of the things he does sound like crappy things that would legitimately tick me off, even if they didn't tick me off to the point of wanting a divorce. Others sound like things you may need to find a solution for yourself. Do you have girlfriends to complain to about work? I have a couple of women friends that are great for those times I just want to complain without needing a plan to fix things. I always find it most productive to focus on what I can do to better the bad times than what my spouse can do. It's true that at some point, both people need to be involved, but I see a lot of my friends getting into what seems like an emotional game of chicken, "I'll work on my part of it after you do." That never goes very far, and really, it's not a good habit to get into whatever your state is in life. Married, single, widowed, etc. You're always going to run into difficult situations and difficult people and that dynamic can happen in any kind of relationship.

[kitten]

Stella, good point - and I've caught myself trying to justify a decision to get out of this thing ALL kinds of ways. Yes, it sounds like a classic breakup line - it's not you, it's me. Sounds like a self-justifying strategy, and I've definitely been prey to these kinds of self-soothing and perhaps hypocritical thoughts. I always imagine myself post-divorce (just as a sort of thought experiment), lying alone on my new hubby-less bed and being just eaten up by guilt. So naturally justifications pop into my head, like - he's better off without me. This would be an instance of my attempts to assuage my own guilt over initiating the break-up. I don't see this kind of thing as being controlling, necessarily, but I do see your point that trying to frame the break-up in a certain way could come off like a control move.

Yes, it's about both of us, not just me. I'm an introvert with a tendency to withdraw during troubled times. Not a lot of female friends, which is why I end up crying to a bunch of internet strangers. I've been in therapy most of my life - I keep thinking I should have this being-alive thing figured out by now. I recall how my parents kept shoving me at these self-important pill-dispensing bozos back in the seventies, and the ultimatum was hilarious: cure her in six months! Yeah, right. That was more than thirty years ago. Still working on it, and I'll get back to you when I've got all the answers

So yes - I need to take care of myself, hubby needs to take care of himself, and somehow we have to work it all out together.

The other piece of this is - I think he's got a whole other life, emotional or otherwise, that I know nothing about. The advice of my last therapist was to just ask him about this. We talk about everything but our relationship - so maybe it's time.

Thanks for the light bulb moments, you guys, I appreciate this more than you know!

[bae]

Getting up multiple times a night to use the restroom was one of my sleep apnea symptoms, as well as the not-getting-to-sleep-for-hours business. immediate improvement upon treatment.

[kitten]

Hi bae, that's really interesting about sleep apnea. I'll make sure we check that out. Thanks!

[awakenedsoul]

kitten,
Congratulations on your book! That's fabulous! I don't really have any advice or answers...I'm single and I don't have marital experience. I would listen to your body, though. For me, that's my best barometer. I'm not sure how old you are, but I think midlife is really hard on people. (men and women.) I know I need to exercise every day and eat every two hours. That keeps me on an even keel. I also have to have a creative outlet and spend time in nature. Not having close female friends is very hard. It's so helpful to have someone to discuss your problems with...I can talk with my mom and a couple of neighbors. I also have a gay male friend who gives excellent advice, and an older guy that I used to dance with (he's straight,) who is a good friend and is very wise. I think we need that. Loneliness is depressing. Do you journal? Do you have a spiritual practice? I think staying balanced takes work. It also helps me to read inspiring books. I drink soy milk for estrogen and do yoga to balance my hormones. Kathrine Hepburn said that people should get married and live next door to one another. I always chuckled at that.

[HappyHiker]

Hi Kitten, I agree with Awakened Soul's contribution above.

Just to add: like others, my marriage has been up and down...last five years have been very up. We're very different people, but we have much in common, too. Along the way, I've discovered:

--take turns being boss in your marriage--let your spouse win sometimes--you (or spouse) don't always have to be right.

--humor cures ill-humor. Not everything is a life or death struggle. Smile and dance.

--only you can make yourself happy. Learn to give yourself optimistic internal messages. I've found when I'm pointing the finger of blame at spouse, three fingers are pointing right back at me. What am I really unhappy about?

--give spouse alone time, time to de-compress and not have to talk. Don't expect emotional support when spouse is depleted from work or lack of sleep.

--have several good same-gender friends to speak with...don't make spouse your only confidante.

--artists/writers can have tender sensibilities--it's what makes them creative. Treat yourself tenderly--but treat your spouse that way, too. A hug and an "I love you" go a long way toward a happy relationship.

[kitten]

Thanks awakenedsoul and HappyHiker, I loved hearing your responses

I hope I'm not coming off like some b!itch who's always complaining to hubby that everything is his fault. Not me at all - I'm a big self-blamer actually. But I do tend to withdraw when I'm unhappy, and that can come off like passive-aggression I think. I grew up in a chaotic home with parents who rejected me from the start - my mother was always screaming and my dad was constantly trying to bait me into arguments. I HATE noise, arguments, confrontations, etc. My response to their rigged game was just to shut down, and that became my MO. I realize it's counterproductive for me as an adult, but I don't always know that I'm doing it.

With my hubby there is real love (something that was missing with my parents), and sometimes I think he would just like to know where I am. So thanks for the reminders to include him.