Wealth inequality in America

[ApatheticNoMore]

Hmm, I would think the root cause would be there aren't enough good jobs to go around and there haven't been for decades if ever, and so even if we provided boatloads of training and social work and whatever for everyone to "rehabilitate" them and everyone wanted to work etc. etc., there still aren't enough good jobs to go around, end of story!

It doesn't have to be. The remedy requires society as a whole changing what it means for a job to be "good" to something that is sustainable (and indeed that's going to result in changes to all jobs in society), and then fulfilling the obligation of making every job good.

By a "good job" I really only meant paying enough so that you aren't working and falling into the working poor, I meant paying enough so that working manages to lift one out of poverty. It was shorthand, I had nothing grander in mind, and was merely saying that the economic situation of having enough jobs to both employ everyone AND make sure they are lifted out of poverty by work alone without any government aid doesn't exist, so therefore ... government aid becomes a necessary part of any such system.

Of course businesses in their employer role also benefit from high unemployment but that's an aside.

No, it isn't. Rewarding exploitation legitimizes it and works against society changing what it means for a job to be "good" to something that is sustainable

Well by "an aside" I mean this high unemployment situation seems to be of benefit to employers so one might get conspiratorial (and I don't consider the term conspiratorial insulting) and say that no wonder we get dozens of bills on everything under the sun many that are wildly unpopular and yet what is the one bill that never passes: a jobs bill or any bill that addresses the unemployment situation! Even though it might be extremely popular! So you might start to wonder about things like intent and so on and if *they* (powers that be) want this high unemployment situation. But conspiracy, and all getting together in a room over cigars to plan the situation, is not necessary, even in good times you have the so called "natural unemployment rate", which is that unemployment that is considered naturally part of the economy, so if we're going to live in a system that naturally always has some unemployment then ... government aid naturally exists alongside it to plug that gap.

[Gregg]

Does anyone have any links to resources that would help me further research exploitive practices by global mega corporations?

If you just want to raise your blood pressure a little check into Veolia, Suez, Nalco, Thames Water and the rest. Their work is setting up the potential for exploitation the likes of which has never been seen.

[bUU]

something else I see is the lack of dignity in lower paying jobs. I don't think that used to be the case.

Well, actually, it was - society was less mature then. Remember, we're just we're just 150 years past slavery, and though society has made great progress with regard to treatment of women, they're are still not treated as equals in our society. We're growing up, slowly, as a society - still pulling ourselves out of the muck, to some extent. And though you don't see many people claiming that workers should be sanguine about being treated like dirt like in the old days, such cretins are out there.

[Lainey]

If you just want to raise your blood pressure a little check into Veolia, Suez, Nalco, Thames Water and the rest. Their work is setting up the potential for exploitation the likes of which has never been seen.

Gregg, are you turning in to a liberal??

[Gregg]

Gregg, are you turning in to a liberal??

Buuuhahahah! That'll be the day, eh Lainey? But I do believe in calling a spade a spade and the whole issue of global water is one that really concerns me because of the direction its heading. Of course that's another thread...

[Kevin]

If you just want to raise your blood pressure a little check into Veolia, Suez, Nalco, Thames Water and the rest. Their work is setting up the potential for exploitation the likes of which has never been seen.

Thank you.

- Kevin

[Kevin]

Here is how I view the problem. Wealth, power over others, and the desire for it is the "Mammon Spirit". It's like the one ring in Lord of the Rings. We weren't meant to have it and it only leads to destruction - of others first, and of its owner eventually.

The problems we have are not systems driven or resource driven. They are spiritually driven. We lack in love. Capitalism or socialism would work equally well if the pervasive tendency of the heart was to consider the needs of others ahead of our own (or at least as important as our own.) That just isn't the general way of thinking in most people, and for those of us who think that way, it isn't the case all of the time.

Philosophically I'm a libertarian leaning conservative, or a conservative leaning libertarian based on the day. These recent quotes from Dallas Willard really strike at the core of my thinking on this. . .

"Knowledge is our ability to represent things as they are on an appropriate basis of thought and experience."

"Claims to knowledge are not the same as knowledge. Because knowledge is so influential in human life, people tend to claim knowledge they don't have. And then claims to knowledge become instruments of oppression."

"Authority institutionalized or vested in individuals tends to drift away from knowledge to power. Power to harm or hurt - to cause people to do things . . ."

"Knowledge is still in the area of freedom and truth and openness and inquiry. But when a person in power is put in a corner they want to disregard that and just use the power. Thus it becomes oppressive and it often opposes truth."

"We are meant to live by our own thoughts and our own convictions, our own insights and feelings. That isn't an easy project, but somehow if you take that away, you crush human life. So authority can blot out this extremely important thing of living from your own thoughts, understandings, and choices."

The struggle for me is this. How do those who don't believe in "power over" and "authority" use as little as is necessary to keep those who are self-seeking and strong from exploiting the weak? How do we take care of the truly weak ones while not contributing to the delinquency of those who are self-seeking and lazy?

The "Mammon Spirit" places a value on things over people and it feeds on weakness of character to foster desire for that which is really not necessary for life. It creates all kinds of false wants, that become needs, that cause all kinds of unwanted behavior. We utilize it to manipulate others to get what we want and others utilize it to manipulate us to get what they want. If we don't slay it, it will eventually slay us.

- Kevin

[oldhat]

Levels of wealth inequality in the US have simply reached levels that aren't healthy for the society as a whole--including the rich. Do wealthy people really want to end up living in walled-off communities with armed guards to protect them from ever-growing hoards of have-nots? I don't think so.

I have no problem with people getting rich. Problem is, it's getting harder and harder to do, even here in the "land of opportunity." It's unfortunately true that in this country, the best way to get rich is to be born rich. I don't even have a problem with folks who are born rich, except when they keep insisting that their station in life is the result of virtue rather than luck. All that claptrap about how hard they work and all the obstacles they've overcome. I once saw a guy on TV who was born without arms and who had trained himself to play the guitar with his feet. When he talks about overcoming obstacles, I listen. When someone like Mitt Romney or George W. Bush talks about overcoming obstacles, I laugh derisively.

[pinkytoe]

Do wealthy people really want to end up living in walled-off communities

I would imagine that many of them would like that just fine. And it may come to that when only the wealthy can enjoy the things we all have a right to like clean air and water especially as these things become scarcer.

[Gregg]

I would imagine that many of them would like that just fine. And it may come to that when only the wealthy can enjoy the things we all have a right to like clean air and water especially as these things become scarcer.

The best real estate is always the most expensive and, as a result, only the people with the most money can afford it. There may not be armed guards lurking in every shadow (yet), but a quick tour of tony zip codes around the country will show you some awfully nice places to live. The best that money can buy. That has been and always will be the case.