The Trayvon Martin incident

[Zoebird]

I can't make a whole lot of sense of this story yet.

Foremost, I'm sorry that a young man is dead. That is simple enough.

I think the only facts that we have is that he was wearing a hoodie, and that he was carrying skittles and iced tea. And that he was 'black.' (I prefer to use African american, Caribbean american, african, or the individual's preferred term for recognizing their own background, but in this instance, because I do not know the young man's or his family's preferences, I'll use a general "black.")

THere are also a gun involved, and a man who had the legal right to own and carry that weapon (which is technically following gun control laws).

Beyond that, there is a lot of conflicting information -- as well as a lot of ugly statements.

most of my friends who are mothers of black children (mixed race, adopted from africa, african and caribbean american, among others) are very, very upset about this, consider how delightful their children are (yes, into teens and young adulthood), and fear that they would be a victim in such a circumstance, a simple circumstance of living in a wealthy, suburban neighborhood having gone to the convenience store to get snacks.

Many of my friends, you see, live in wealthy suburban neighborhoods -- even gated communities -- with their black sons who wear hoodies and walk to the local store for candy.

So, they're a bit freaked out.

[Yossarian]

they would be a victim in such a circumstance, a simple circumstance of living in a wealthy, suburban neighborhood having gone to the convenience store to get snacks.

Maybe when the facts are all known there may be an easy answer. As it stands there seem to be a lot of contributing factors, but I'm not sure living in a wealthy neighborhood is one given the apparent crime rate. You can't have group guilt for individual actions and I don't pretend to know what GZ was thinking that night, but I wonder what percentage of people would, if they were being honest, admit to being more suspicious of certain people given a history of prior victimization. This reminds me in some ways of the discussion we had about Juan Williams (oh, the irony) comments on boarding a plane with certain types of people, once you consider the local circumstances:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/...145647987.html

"My house was being robbed, and George on his nightly rounds watched this burglary in progress, called Sanford P.D., waited for them, and helped ensure that nothing bad happened to my house," Taaffe said. "And it's documented in the 911 call for February 2." ...

Taaffe said that "young black males" were the perpetrators in the attempted robbery of his home. "We had eight burglaries in our neighborhood all perpetrated by young black males in the 15 months prior to Trayvon being shot," Taaffe said. "It would have been nine."

[CathyA]

Wow........its been awhile since anyone posted on this. It should be over this week.
I found it sort of strange that they had both mothers testify that it was their son's voice yelling for help, but I guess if one mother was questioned, then the other needed to be too.
Its hard to believe that they would convict Zimmerman. There are just too many unknowns. I just hope its the fair judgement. But I guess we'll never know for sure.
I hope there aren't any riots.

[redfox]

What do you think would have been the trajectory of this entire sordid affair if Zimmerman had been black, and Trayvon white?

[Alan]

What do you think would have been the trajectory of this entire sordid affair if Zimmerman had been black, and Trayvon white?

We would never have heard of it. The President would not have chosen to comment on it, NBC news would not have edited tapes to highlight perceived racial bias and the term "white hispanic" would not have been coined.

[bae]

What do you think would have been the trajectory of this entire sordid affair if Zimmerman had been black, and Trayvon white?

If they had both been black, it would have never made the news. How many young black men were shot dead last week by other young black men "protecting their neighborhoods"? Did you see any hand-wringing over them?

[rodeosweetheart]

Redfox, why do you post this question, "What do you think would have been the trajectory of this entire sordid affair if Zimmerman had been black, and Trayvon white?" when the defendant does not self-identify as white?

Why do we assume everything in this country is determined by race? I was just on a jury that dealt with a civil case in my hometown here, which is historically predominantly African-American. Both defendant and plaintiff were African-American. Jury had African-American and Euro-Caucasian members. We decided the case on the facts, did the best we could to determine the facts, as that was our charge. I chatted a lot with one other juror--we sort of gravitated towards each other as being anxious types. We both found being on the jury incredibly stressful. She was African-American and about 30 years younger than I. She thought the African-American lawyer was incompetent. She said she was probably distantly related to both parties--everyone in our neighborhood is related to somebody. No one liked any of the lawyers, neither local nor from the big city, but we worked really, really hard to discuss the facts, examine the evidence, and do exactly as the judge instructed us.

What informed everyone's thinking was not what is this person's color or background, but what is the law, what happened here, how does the law apply.

She said to me (and I was thinking the same thing) Thank god this isn't a murder case--I would fall apart. Neither of us liked to sit in judgment over another human being. My heart goes out to the jurors, who are probably doing the best they can under very difficult circumstances. They are definitely candidates for "juror stress", which is a recognized psychological phenomeon and can produce PTSD. My heart goes out to two mothers, as the idea of listening to someone screaming and identifying that as one's son, possibly in his last moments on earth--how can we conscript such horrors for our own ideological bully pulpits?

[redfox]

Rodeosweetheart, good question! Since the heart of this case as it's been covered IS race, I consider it an interesting thought experiment to reverse the races & see how that might change one's thinking about it all.

For me, if the assaliant had been African America & the victim white, I believe that, like Alan said, we would not have had commentary about it at the national level. Instead, I believe that the assailant would have been jailed immediately, had no defense fund, and likely convicted without any media coverage at all.

And, to Alan's comment, the concept of white Hispanics has been around for a long time. Some Hispanic's self-identify as white, some as Latino. I didn't understand that the defendant in this case specifically does not identify as white, thank you for sharing this.

I live in a part of Seattle where many young African American men have been shot in the last several years. The SPD has under investigation by Dept. of Justice for the truly appalling way that people of color have been treated here. The lack of attention to these murders has been quite apparent to even local politicians. Race always factors in public life.

[Reyes]

Since most all acts of murder are intraracial, I'd like to see more focus and conversation in that area. If the goal is reduce the number of murders, this is where we need to focus. The BJS reports that:

From 1980 through 2008—  84% of white victims were killed by whites (figure 19).  93% of black victims were killed by blacks.

[iris lilies]

... If the goal is reduce the number of murders, this is where we need to focus. ..

Oh I don't think for a moment that the goal of those bleating about this incident is to reduce the number of murders.