The Trayvon Martin incident

[peggy]

I have a question for Alan, or maybe bae, or anyone really who cares to answer it.
Suppose you were walking through your neighborhood at night, and you suddenly became aware that someone was stalking you, what would you do?

[dmc]

I have a question for Alan, or maybe bae, or anyone really who cares to answer it.
Suppose you were walking through your neighborhood at night, and you suddenly became aware that someone was stalking you, what would you do?

If it was my neighborhood I would probably know the neighborhood watch guy and tell him its just me. Or I could always call 911 or go nock on one of my neighbors door and ask for help. I probably would not attack him and try and bash his head against the pavement.

[CathyA]

I fear we will never know what REALLY happened. I'm sure Martin didn't know the neighborhood watch guy (since he just moved there), but hopefully Zimmerman told him who he was.........but maybe things happened so fast, there wasn't any time for that. I can't imagine they will find Zimmerman guilty..........but you never know.

If I thought I was being followed, I'd probably run to a house/condo close by, and be calling 911. I just can't imagine that Zimmerman just ran up to him and started fighting him.
Has anyone noticed how much weight he has gained since the incident?......probably 50#. I'm surprised no one has brought that up, since it might look to some that he was so big, compared to Martin.

[Alan]

I have a question for Alan, or maybe bae, or anyone really who cares to answer it.
Suppose you were walking through your neighborhood at night, and you suddenly became aware that someone was stalking you, what would you do?

I think you'd have to define 'stalking'. If it were someone walking behind me, I'd let them know by a look behind that I knew they were there, then go on about my business. If they were invading my space, attempting to question me improperly or doing something that made me feel threatened, I'd call 911 and then, depending upon the level of threat I perceived, confront them.

I'm not sure why you'd direct the question to bae or me although I'd guess it's because we're known to be concealed weapon carriers. So, if you're really wanting to know if I would pull out my weapon and either threaten or deliver deadly force against a person following me, the answer is no. Deadly force is only used to prevent death or serious injury to yourself or to others, not as a response to feeling uncomfortable.

[bae]

I have a question for Alan, or maybe bae, or anyone really who cares to answer it.
Suppose you were walking through your neighborhood at night, and you suddenly became aware that someone was stalking you, what would you do?

I would maneuver to a position of advantage, and thusly force my "stalker" to reveal his/her intentions.

I would not initiate the use of physical force. I would however be prepared to respond to any force offered towards me.

[peggy]

I think bae is the only one who answered this honestly enough.
Maybe you would be so cool, calling 911 and all Alan, but I think you probably would more likely turn, say 'Hey, WTF are you doing? Why are you following me?'
Remember, it's night, which means it's dark, and you are minding your own business when this happens. You are going to be surprised, then frightened, then angry. I do believe you would confront the guy. You may not come out swinging, but it's dark, the guy is itching to 'be a cop' or whatever, you really don't know, maybe he's going to rob you, or beat you up, and things get out of hand pretty quick in tense situations.

I ask this question because, most people don't ask themselves this, or answer it honestly. Most women, I think, would run (home or to a neighbors because that is our training from day one, really) and most men, who are fairly sure of themselves (and all 17 year old young men are sure of themselves) would turn and say something like the above. Most would not run away. Or stop to call 911 ( "here, hold on a moment while I ring up 911...that's a good stalker") or identify themselves (why should they, it's their neighborhood, and really, who 'identifies' themselves to would-be robbers?)
I do believe 9 out of 10 men would turn and confront, just like I assume Travon Martin did. Zimmerman confronted, even though he was told not to and actually pursued to confront, with the added emboldening 'id' of a gun.

We do know many facts here. The kid was simply walking home from a store. He did not rob the store, he was not peeking in windows, or smashing lawn ornaments etc..Just walking home. He did not confront, or threaten Zimmerman, or even know he was there until Zimmerman confronted him.
Zimmerman, a cop wanna-be, self appointed neighborhood watch person with a gun (police tell neighborhood watch people to never carry a gun) sees the kid and calls the police. They tell him directly to not follow the kid. He ignores the cops and gets out of this car to follow, then confronts. I suspect the kid realized he was being followed at some point and turned to confront his stalker. Maybe Zimmerman already had his gun drawn, he certainly had the safety off. If the kid did throw a punch then that was his miscalculation, and probably more a symptom of being 17. Wasn't he, in fact, standing his ground? Somebody stalked him, threatened him, and he stood his ground. Isn't this kind of situation, in fact, what stand your ground is for? You are threatened and you use force to stop the threat? Zimmerman wasn't threatened until he forced himself into the situation.
Zimmerman WAS the threat!
Unfortunately he also had the gun. I don't think Stand Your Ground was designed to absolve the winner of a fist fight when it turns fatal. Zimmerman started this fight by simply being there with a gun. He was LOOKING for a fight. Travon Martin wasn't. But he was thrust into one by Zimmermans actions, just as bae, honestly, would be thrust into a confrontation by his stalker.

I don't believe Zimmerman set out that day to kill someone, but he did. It happened, and the person he killed was an innocent kid walking home from the store. He should pay the price.

Frankly I don't understand why the right (on Fox it's practically hysterical) is so adamant about defending this guy. It's either a gun thing or a race thing.

[bae]

You misunderstand my words then. I would not be "thrust" into a confrontation by my mere presence, nor by giving off non-prey signals, unless my "stalker" was indeed bent upon violence, in which case I would respond in an appropriate manner, as is my duty and right.

I woudn't call 911. Cell phones don't work here, and law enforcement response time is ~30 minutes. I have a radio with me at all times that communicates directly with county dispatch, but, well, I'd be the first responder if they paged out...

[Alan]

I think bae is the only one who answered this honestly enough.
Maybe you would be so cool, calling 911 and all Alan, but I think you probably would more likely turn, say 'Hey, WTF are you doing? Why are you following me?'

You know, I spent nearly 30 years escorting high profile, well known people and have been in the situation you describe more often than you might imagine. Your depiction is an emotional response, not a professional response. You ask me what I would do, I told you not only what I would do, but what I have done.

Also, words are not force. Whoever initiates force is the aggressor. I wish more people understood that.

[CathyA]

Peggy, I think you're making some assumptions, that just haven't been proven. Yes, Zimmerman was following him, but we don't know for sure who was the actual aggressor that led to the fight. Yes, Martin was "innocent" in that he was just walking back to his dad's/girlfriend's apartment, minding his own business......but no one will ever know the truth as to who actually did the beating up. And I don't believe that Martin is an innocent, in a larger respect.

[Spartana]

I have a question for Alan, or maybe bae, or anyone really who cares to answer it.
Suppose you were walking through your neighborhood at night, and you suddenly became aware that someone was stalking you, what would you do?

As a woman who also carries a concealed weapon I would simply cross the street or get out of the way of the person - stop to let them pass or see if they continue to follow me. If they continued to follow me or seemed physically threatening in any way (not just verbal) I'd probably try to get out of their way much faster - maybe go to a near by house (although I admit that would seem very unnatural to me even if it's the best thing to do I think) and call 911 - but would be ready to protect myself physically (or others if needed) if he/she made violent advances on me. That wouldn't mean branishing my gun, not unless they had a weapon, unless there was no other choice. I also carry a can of mace with me when I walk at night or alone on remote hiking trails so that would be the first thing I'd use if someone who was unarmed became physically violent with me. I wouldn't do anything if they verbally threatened me, or even just questioned me like a neighborhood watch person might, just move out of their way far enough to feel safe.