Is the American Dream dead?

[Gregg]

Noone actualy has all these advantages do they? Maybe Mitt Romney?

And Barack Obama.

What do we define as "The American Dream"?

And that's where this kind of discussion can get kind of silly. What we need to do is provide opportunity for people to define and then chase whatever their version of that dream is. The pursuit of happiness? Anyway, the government and the rest of society simply should not be putting up roadblocks for anyone who is striving for their dream (with all the usual 'don't hurt anyone else' safety measures in place, of course). Let them go, it will benefit us all.

Entitlement -- the belief that you did deserve something -- is a change that started with our parents, who expected Social Security and Medicare to pay out well beyond anything they had paid in. It's an expectation brought on by a long tail of prosperity fueled by cheap resources that led workers to believe they would always be paid more next year.

+1 Yea, its going to suck when the cheap resources gravy train ends, but it has to sooner or later.

[puglogic]

Anyway, the government and the rest of society simply should not be putting up roadblocks for anyone who is striving for their dream (with all the usual 'don't hurt anyone else' safety measures in place, of course).

I love when I agree with you, Gregg But can you give me an example of such a roadblock, so I can be clear on what you mean?

I can really see all sides of this. There were times in my life when I had to use every scrap of resourcefulness and intelligence I possessed to keep moving forward toward my own version of "the dream." And it does anger me when I am around others who have the expectation that it will all just be handed to them. But it is so many shades of gray.

Truthfully, I have a lot more fun discussing with people what they'd like their own personal version of the American (or global) Dream to be. I know that mine is to live simply and well, well connected with my family/friends/community, safe from physical tyranny, and with the reasonable ability to earn an income that can feed my family and keep us sheltered, fed, healthy, and happy -- no six-figure toys, 500 channels, trust fund, world domination required. In return for it, I am willing to work hard and learn how to play well with others (I'm getting better at that as I age), and as a good friend says, "Ask for what I need, and offer everything I can."

[Gregg]

I love when I agree with you, Gregg But can you give me an example of such a roadblock, so I can be clear on what you mean?

Lol. Sure pug. Things like excessive regulatory and licensing requirements to start a small business. We have way too much red tape. For people not well versed in navigating those waters that has two outcomes. Either the would-be entrepreneur gives up or it forces them underground into the cash economy. The first robs the community of more options for that particular service and limits the individual to getting whatever someone else is wiling to pay. The second robs the community of taxable revenue and essentially turns an ambitious person (who probably has no desire to break the law) into a criminal.

Also in the small business arena are things like access to capital. My Dad always said his banker was happy to lend him an umbrella as long as it wasn't raining. Its true enough. Start up is one of the most capital intensive phases for most small businesses, but it is also the most difficult time to access it. The SBA is a good organization, but it is also weighed down with red tape. By the time a loan guarantee is approved an entrepreneur can be broke and back in his old job. I'm not saying we should just throw money into the street for anyone with an idea, but the people who have good ideas shouldn't be shut down just because they can't access funds.

How about the cost of education? Since the costs probably aren't coming down we have to find ways for more people to have access without saddling them with a lifetime of debt. Not everyone should go to college, but the ones who are motivated and willing to put effort into it should be able to attend. Keeping kids like that out of school is a roadblock that is going to come full circle and bite us all on the you-know-what, probably in less than a generation.

[Rogar]

How about the cost of education? Since the costs probably aren't coming down we have to find ways for more people to have access without saddling them with a lifetime of debt. Not everyone should go to college, but the ones who are motivated and willing to put effort into it should be able to attend. Keeping kids like that out of school is a roadblock that is going to come full circle and bite us all on the you-know-what, probably in less than a generation.

If someone doesn't latch on to offering a college education via the internet it will be an opportunity missed. I understand it is being used on a limited basis, but could nearly eliminate a brick and mortar education in some or many instances.

I have grown to cringe at the term, "entitlements". Somehow we have built into our economy a system or culture of disincentives for self-development and achievement by providing handouts, whether it is from parents or government programs. The same word and it's negative connotation is also used for helping the disabled, the sick, and the elderly, which seems like a nice benefit of living in one of the greatest nations around.

[Gardenarian]

Sorry, didn't read all the previous posts.

I think that it is still easier to get rich (fairly) quickly in the U.S. than anywhere else. Look at Mr. Money Mustache.

If that is what the American dream is.

I think it also easier to find your own wacky community of like-minded people here (not mentioning any forums by name...)

Working at a community college I see people changing their lives every day.

[creaker]

It really depends on what you call the American dream.

If you mean the "try to get rich" thing, there will always be tons people who will, most will fail, and a handful will succeed. And there always have been those folks, regardless of the underlying system.

If you mean the "get a job, do what your employer expects, get paid, move up and get car, house, family and eventually have a comfortable retirement" thing - it's on its way out. Some people will still have this - but nowhere near the numbers that used to. I think this form of the American dream will be sighted in the history books as an interesting anomoly caused by a number of factors, that lasted from the end of WWII until sometime early in the 21st century.

[HappyHiker]

"I think the "American Dream" is a moving target with higher standards now than a couple or few decades ago when the average home size was much smaller and cell phones, computers, internet, and cable TV didn't exist." This comment, by another poster, is interesting--and true IMHO...and yet...our wages have not kept up with inflation, giving working people less to live on proportionately... even if they lived as they did in the 1950's without all the frills of modern society.

Back then, what did a house cost? What did a car cost? How much did gasoline and food cost? For example, if a house cost $10,000 back then and gasoline 23 cents a gallon, have our wages gone up enough to pay for them today? I don't think so.

Seems to me, with globalization and the hollowing out of our manufacturing base, our wages for the working class (and that's most of us) have shrunk while inflation has expanded. Much of the middle class is sinking lower and lower into poverty. The disparity between the haves and the have nots is now a huge gap. We're (the working/middle class) going backwards....

[Spartana]

True happy Hiker but our changing habits and lifestyle and the expectation for "more" often drives prices up. Wally and the Beaver shared a bedroom (as did all those other TV family kids - including the Brady kids) in the small house that was a lifetime "home" rather than just a "starter" home. Same with most 1950 - 1970 families. We had one car that was shared and if the teens wanted one, they had to buy the old clunker themselves. If they wanted to go to college they needed to work and save while in high school and while in college to help pay for it themselves. Now we "need" seperate bedrooms for each kid - plus a den, family room, a 3 car garage, and all the toys like boats and jet skiis, etc... And we constantly want to move up to accomadate a growing family or the accumulation of m,ore stuff. Parents are now expected to buy their kids new cars rather than old ones (and finance insurance and fuel), fund their college educations, keep them clothed in stylish fashions ($100 jeans and tennis shoes), and on and on. Of course it would be hard to keep that level of lifestyle on current incomes.

Added to that is the fact that we are unwilling to pay the high prices for goods that we'd have to pay if manufactured by a higher income/benefitted American labor force. So we buy our $4 chinese-made tee shirts at Walmart instead of the $20 ones from an American made product. Hard to pay decent wages to employees in the manufacturing sectors if people are unwilling to pay higher prices for the goods and services.

[HappyHiker]

Spartina, I take your point, and much of what you said is true. But having watched the series by Bill Moyers profiling those two families, it seems they couldn't make a go of it in today's job market, and one family lost their home to foreclosure--even while living a simple lifestyle. Neither of the two families seemed to live in an opulent home...

So, even "getting by" these days is not in the cards for many...too many unemployed, too many job-seekers, not enough jobs. And many of the jobs, for those without a needed higher degree, are service sector jobs that don't pay a living wage.

Many Walmart workers are kept part-time and earn so little they're getting food stamps, have no medical benefits. And you're right, that's why we should be supporting locally-made goods and products...and not buying from companies whose employee pay is so low that we citizens are paying for corporate welfare for their workers.

[Ahh The Simple Name]

I am familiar with the PBS program. I've done quite a bit of research on this topic. There's a series of posts on my blog titled "A New American Dream: A Simple Life". Here are the links:
http://www.ahhthesimplelife.com/a-new-american-dream-part-i/
http://www.ahhthesimplelife.com/a-new-american-dream-part-ii/
http://www.ahhthesimplelife.com/a-ne...ream-part-iii/