Obamacare, or, I might be up a creek w/o a paddle

[Alan]

Well, what a good question! Since it was modeled on Romney's plan, the GOP nominee, it doesn't seem to be about the plan itself. I am beginning to suspect it's simply because That Black Dude in the White House put it forth. It is definitely not "socialistic"! (One of the sillier words to come about lately, too.)

LOL, I'm sorry but I find this extremely amusing. It is fairly socialistic and the Mass legislature over-rode Romney's veto of the 8 or 10 most intrusive elements of the legislation which eventually became known as Romneycare.

And, the 'Black Dude in the White House' narrative is simply precious.

[iris lilies]

I remember when a couple of posters here from the state of Mass. talked about their state required insurance. I found that interesting, and I remember when one of them complained about having to drop his/her high deducible plan to take a plan that covered all of the requirement of the state. That was the harbinger of this requirement in ObamaCare, so I wasn't surprised when this issue came forward in recent months.

I found the Mass. experiment to be interesting and useful to watch from afar, but I thought it was too bad that high deductibles plans are out the window since I think that the average American needs to plan for and pay for routine medical care. In my mind it's just bad philosophy to expect insurance to pay for it all.

That said, ObamaCare does allow for 4 levels of insurance (bronze, silver, gold and platinum (?) so there remains some level of choice in the deal.

Remember that birth control pills must be covered. Even if one would prefer to pay for them yourself and have a high deductible, that choice is not yours to make.

[iris lilies]

Well, what a good question! Since it was modeled on Romney's plan, the GOP nominee, it doesn't seem to be about the plan itself. I am beginning to suspect it's simply because That Black Dude in the White House put it forth. It is definitely not "socialistic"! (One of the sillier words to come about lately, too.)

If you guys want to toss around labels, ok whatever. I don't see the point, but go for it.

It is obvious to me that any government mandated endeavor to make everyone play in the same health sandbox is a socialist concept. But since I don't much care about labels, you can win the point if you like. I am kind like that. It's the substance of the legislation that irks me.

edited to add:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialist

shows that the word was not invented last week by the Tea Partiers as redfox implies, but instead, is an adjective that's been around as long as the concept of socialism.

[frugalone]

Please, let's not turn this thread into an argument about the two houses or Obama or anything like that.
I'm sitting here having a hard time breathing and keeping my head because of this.
Like, on the verge of a panic attack.
I didn't mean to incite a riot.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Nah, it's not socialist, SOCIALIST not socialistic, by any measure I'd use -mostly who owns the means of production right.

so·cial·ism
noun
1.a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2.procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles. (yea you can have fun with the vagueness of this description but unless you really want to start citing arguments from Marx's writings about socialism and I can't claim to be an expert on that, you are probably NOT adequately arguing it's socialism based on this definition).

So what part of private insurance companies, private hospitals, private pharma companies with capitalist shareholders is socialist? Now it may be a plenty crony kind of capitalism (which seems quite common in capitalism, fancy that, in fact much of the economic system except for some small businesses these days seems pretty crony to me) but .... not socialist. While socialized medicine in some cases may actually be socialist (the British model) private insurance companies are not.

[iris lilies]

ANM, that fact that citizens are required by Nanny G to use the private businesses, the fact that the private business MUST serve all, and the fact the tax money is funding part of this mandate, those are the socialist(ic) parts.

It's a gory mix of capitalism, socialism, and stupidityism, that's for sure.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Please, let's not turn this thread into an argument about the two houses or Obama or anything like that.
I'm sitting here having a hard time breathing and keeping my head because of this.
Like, on the verge of a panic attack.
I didn't mean to incite a riot.

You really do need to do further research to make sure you are aware of all your options. Mind you it's not easy to do more research if there is a possibility there may be no good solution anyway (pretty much how I feel about Fukushima). And I never promised you an Obama pony I've warned people that guy isn't all he seems. But if Obamacare has supposedly hired people who are supposed to help people navigate Obamacare ...

But vent if need be, vent about the horror of the worst case scenario and how frustrating Obamacare is (it's difficulty to understand is not the least of it's frustrations! plus losing a healthcare plan you at least kind of understood), but eventually maybe talk to people who are knowledgeable on the ins and outs of Obamacare just in case there might be a good (or maybe at least not terrible, maybe that's the best we can expect ) option for you.

I got a long Obamacare pdf from HR that I haven't even read, mostly because I don't think Obamacare will affect employer provided insurance (except that prices will keep going up probably just like they did before Obamacare and this is not good!), but if it does change my employer provided coverage, then I guess that wouldn't be good.

[iris lilies]

I will add a random observation today, the day that Breaking Bad airs its final episode. I don't want to de-rail the Breaking Bad thread with Obama politics.

But it amuses me that the pseudo-reason cooked up by BB Hollywood writers for Walter White to go into the meth business is that he couldn't afford the cancer treatments recommended by his doctor. And then, a few seasons later, same thing for his brother in law Hank.

These guys are both public employees who have the best health insurance available. This is teevee B.S. and as such is unbelievable.

But I can suspend disbelief with the best of them because Breaking Bad is a fine piece of entertainment.

[try2bfrugal]

Are you guys with private pay or unaffordable employer insurance looking at your state's health insurance exchanges for premium rates? Do you know what your subsidy amounts will be? I am having a hard time believing with some of the household incomes posted frequently on this forum that many of you will not get highly subsidized plans.

Look at your state exchanges or use the Kaiser calculator and see what rates you will be paying. For a family of four there are significant subsidies for households making up to 400% of poverty level which is over $90K.

The Kaiser estimator is here -
http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

And you do not have to wait until you file your tax returns to get the subsidy credits.

In my state and zip code, 2 people aged 35 with a $35K modified adjusted gross income could get a Bronze policy for $33 a month.

[try2bfrugal]

Iris Lilies - The teachers in our public school district do not have employer health insurance, even those teaching at schools in the affluent (> $100K household income) zip codes.

Here is a UK version of Breaking Bad -

http://www.buzzfeed.com/lukelewis/if...-set-in-the-uk