Getting involved in Libya

[loosechickens]

" Sorry to birdwalk, but have wondered about that ... " (catwoman)

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I'm sorry, dana, but even Google didn't help me......what does "birdwalk" mean in this context? I'm wracking my brain, and spent fifteen minutes on Google, but couldn't come up with it.

[jp1]

It seems to me that we were well aware that the average Libyan person was being oppressed by Gaddafi long before the "rebels" started fighting back a few weeks ago. At that time no one was suggesting that we needed to help the libyan people then. Why only now that they're starting to get slaughtered. It's easy enough to say "but they weren't being slaughtered before," but isn't it maybe that they've finally gotten hungry and desperate enough that they're willing to risk being slaughtered. Their situation hasn't really changed.

And it shouldn't be a surprise that Gaddafi has reacted the way he has to the rebels. Governments and their leaders want to keep power and amass more power. Virtually everything they do has those as their main aims. We may consider the US government to be more benign than Gadaffi, (and in many many ways it is) and we may talk about the horror of him shooting down libyan citizans, but it would be naive to think that the US government would react even slightly differently if US "rebels" took arms with the intention of deposing our government. And in fact when US citizens took arms not even to depose but simply to seceed 150 years ago, the US government reacted exactly as Gaddafi has and instigated the bloodiest war the US has ever known.

It's horrible that Libyan people are being gunned down by Gaddafi's people but it's not our fight to fight.

[Zigzagman]

ZigZag, curious, were you drafted? My DBIL had one of the first numbers drawn in the lottery here. He didn't have to go, at his physical, they discovered his Hodgkins disease, being drafted actually saved his life. Go figure. Sorry to birdwalk, but have wondered about that ...

I was drafted into the United States Army in 1968, I almost joined earlier that year, but backed out to take my chances with the draft. I will never forget stepping off that plane at Bien Hoa airbase around midnight. I can honestly say that I received more from my military service than I gave including a college degree and lifelong friends.

Peace

[Catwoman]

Loosechickens, "birdwalk" means veer off track, probably just idiomatic to my region

[Eggs and Shrubs]

In fairness, the Europeans are so inept they can't handle a country in their own backyard with a population smaller than Honduras (or metropolitan Dallas for that matter) without US forces. We get pulled into these things as well.

In fairness(sic), this post is idiotic, offensive and downright wrong. My parent's generation were so "inept" that they stood alone in 1940 handling a rather large country in their own backyard.

I would be grateful if you withdrew this crass remark.

[IshbelRobertson]

You're wasting your fingers typing the above E&S.... I have already posted my resentment regarding that remark!

[Gregg]

Dharma Bum, perhaps you could clarify what you meant. As written your post is not specifically in violation of forum guidelines, but I can see how it could ruffle the feathers of our European members. There are many examples of European peoples enduring great hardship while fighting oppression and a fair number of folks here that think many European countries do a better job of managing their affairs than the US does so I am also not quite sure what you meant by your comment.

[Eggs and Shrubs]

Dharma Bum, perhaps you could clarify what you meant. As written your post is not specifically in violation of forum guidelines, but I can see how it could ruffle the feathers of our European members. There are many examples of European peoples enduring great hardship while fighting oppression and a fair number of folks here that think many European countries do a better job of managing their affairs than the US does so I am also not quite sure what you meant by your comment.

Thanks Gregg.

This site and it's predecessor are, thankfully, free of the jingoism shown in Dharma Bum's post. In this case, to use British parlance, he or she is talking out of their bum!

[Dharma Bum]

Oh puh-lease. For 15 years we've had Europeans voicing their criticism of US global policy and military actions, often in harsh and quite impolite terms. That fine, it's an open forum and everyone has an opinion. But to get your panties in a bunch over a comment that EU attempts to project military force are "inept" is pretty lame and a complete over reaction that seems to have more foundation in a cultural insecurity than offensive language. "Inept" is not a character assessment, so save the stories of the Blitz 70 years ago. The sun has long since set on the British Empire and in referring to the EU's ability to impose a no fly zone in Libya I used the word inept, which means

Inept

1: lacking in fitness or aptitude
3: not suitable to the time, place, or occasion

I stand by my point- the EU military forces are not nearly as effective as US forces in true conflicts. Yes, the French flew some sorties. But the hard missions and over 90% of the initial strikes were handled by US forces. So drop the misplaced indignation and face the facts. You can criticize the US for spending too much on the military. You can criticize the US for intervening where you think we should not. I would probably agree with many of those comments. But in the case of Libya, it's a fair criticism that the EU lacks an effective capacity to intervene where it politically thinks it should. And as a result the US gets pulled in to a deeper role than perhaps it otherwise would if the EU militaries weren't, well, so inept at such things.

[Alan]

I saw this today regarding thoughts on Libya. It reminded me of the Simple Living forums over the years.