CIA Torture report

[Gardenarian]

The Senate appears to have overlooked that torture is unconstitutional.
It seems that no one is to be answerable to these crimes.

From HuffPo: President Barack Obama said, "The report documents a troubling program involving enhanced interrogation techniques on terrorism suspects in secret facilities outside the United States, and it reinforces my long-held view that these harsh methods were not only inconsistent with our values as nation, they did not serve our broader counterterrorism efforts or our national security interests."

"That is why I will continue to use my authority as President to make sure we never resort to those methods again," Obama added.

Troubling? Some understatement!

He's not going to be president for long. The people responsible for torture should be brought to justice, including everyone in the administration who was aware of what was happening.

This is shameful.

[Rogar]

Technically the President has the ultimate responsibility, but at least from what I've read, the CIA hid much from the Senate and White House. If it does go back to Congress or the President, it apparently happened during the Bush administration.

[creaker]

When revealing the truth is considered a bad thing, there's a problem.

[Teacher Terry]

It was authorized by Bush. I saw an interview where he admits it.

[Alan]

It was authorized by Bush. I saw an interview where he admits it.

He admitted torture? I think he probably admitted the use of enhanced interrogation techniques, which some define as "torture".

It may be instructive to know what an enhanced interrogation technique entails. From the Wall Street Journal:

Here are some of the specific techniques formerly approved for use by the CIA interrogators.
“Attention grasp” – Grabbing a detainee forcibly by the collar.
Cramped confinement – Place the detainee in a dark, tight space for hours at a time.
Cramped confinement “with an insect” - Developed for Abu Zubaydah, a militant commander allegedly allied with Osama bin Laden. CIA officers learned Mr. Zubaydah was afraid of insects, so they sought permission to place him in a box with a harmless bug such as a caterpillar, while telling him it was a stinging insect. People familiar with the matter say this technique was approved but not used.
Facial hold – Holding the detainee’s head immobile during questioning.
Facial slap or “Insult Slap” – Slapping a detainee in the face “with fingers slightly spread.” “The goal of the facial slap is not to inflict physical pain” but “to induce shock, surprise, and/or humiliation,” Assistant Attorney General Jay Bybee wrote.
Sleep deprivation – A detainee is forced to go without sleep for more than 48 hours. “You have orally informed us that you would not deprive Zubaydah of sleep for more than 11 days at a time and that you have previously kept him awake for 72 hours,” Mr. Bybee wrote.
Stress positions – Requiring the detainee to stay in uncomfortable positions to induce muscle fatigue.
“Walling” – Pushing a detainee “quick and forcefully” against a flexible wall. “The false wall is in part constructed to create a loud sound when the individual hits it, which will further shock or surprise… the individual,” Mr. Bybee wrote for the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel in 2002.
Wall standing – “Used to induce muscle fatigue.” The detainee is forced to stand about four feet from a wall, leaning so that his arms resting against the wall carry some of his weight. “The individual is not permitted to move or reposition his hands or feet,” Mr. Bybee wrote.
Waterboarding – A detainee lying on a gurney has a cloth placed over his face. Water is poured on the cloth, simulating the experience of drowning.
Waterboarding was used against three detainees, according to people familiar with the matter. Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, a suspect in the bombing of the USS Cole, was subjected to it twice, according to government documents; alleged Sept. 11 plot mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was subjected to it 183 times; Mr. Zubaydah was waterboarded at least 83 times.

[Teacher Terry]

I don't care how you phrase it waterboarding is torture-simulated drowning-that sounds like fun!

[Alan]

I don't care how you phrase it waterboarding is torture-simulated drowning-that sounds like fun!

Oh I'm sure it's not at all fun. I doubt any of the tens of thousands of our military personnel who endured it during training remember it fondly.

[ApatheticNoMore]

The Senate appears to have overlooked that torture is unconstitutional.

Torture OUGHT to be unconstitutional. It is EXPLICITLY unconstitutional in the constitutions of many countries, torture is specifically outlawed. However "cruel and unusual" punishment you would think would obvioulsy cover it. I would prefer an explicit ban on torture as such, but you would think that would cover it.

Technically the President has the ultimate responsibility, but at least from what I've read, the CIA hid much from the Senate and White House. If it does go back to Congress or the President, it apparently happened during the Bush administration.

the particular torture in the report maybe. Torture of course obviously continues under Obama. Force feeding for instance is generally considered torture and it is well known that this is present practice.

Oh I'm sure it's not at all fun. I doubt any of the tens of thousands of our military personnel who endured it during training remember it fondly.

perhaps they should see if they have a legal case. I think joining the military signs away some rights though. Prisoners of war are a very different situation than voluntarily joining one's own military, and the treatment of prisoners taken in war also violates various international legal agreements as well.

[Alan]

Prisoners of war are a very different situation than voluntarily joining one's own military, and the treatment of prisoners taken in war also violates various international legal agreements as well.

That's true, the Geneva Convention is very clear about the treatment of prisoners fighting under their country's flag, in uniform, but has nothing to do with prisoners not meeting those very specific criteria.

perhaps they should see if they have a legal case.

I doubt they'd get very far even if you could find one willing to sue. The true value of legal action in this sort of thing is political, as a means to make an opponent look bad in someone else's eyes. Most military members accept fear and discomfort as a way of life.

[bae]

I have a good friend who for years was in an Israeli secret-squirrel outfit, tracking down Very Very Unpleasant People and dealing with them. His expert opinion is that for the most part "real" torture was useless for his purposes - it produced very unreliable results. Softer "torture" - psychological manipulation, games-playing, uncomfortable/stressful environments - did produce results.

As to waterboarding - it *is* quite unpleasant, but some people do seem to do it for kicks, judging from seminar schedules I've seen from the Center for Sex Positive Culture in Seattle. But the parties involved are risk-aware and consenting. Chacun à son goût.