Unorganized religion is allowed?Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
I say we ban organized religion. Problem solved. After all, it's been a major cause of strife and bloody mayhem (not to mention unnecessary guilt) for thousands of years. Wishful thinking, of course.
That is really a hard question - people can be pretty offensive, I think more so than things like the 14th amendment.
How much freedom do I want to give those who would make my world an ugly, nasty place I would not choose to live in limited to only the choices they would want me to have? I'm not sure.
Would those people also use government and laws and force to make the world the way they think it should be? History says yes.
I think a distinction should be made between public accommodation and being forced to perform personal services.
Ah yes, totalitarianism in the service of freedom.
What is the difference between public accommodation and personal services? Can you give an example?
In reality you can't give someone freedom, you can only deny it. So, in my mind, the question is how far will you go to deny others their freedom to be offensive?
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein
I don't. By that I mean, I might expect adults to act like adults, but in reality, there is always tension between allowing citizens to act out their own self-interest vs. "others"-interest (i.e. "maturely"). The conflict between those two factors is the problem. In this case, the discussion about religious freedom, I might be even more inclined to trust a child over an adult because those layers of belief that get crusty and hardened over time can be detrimental to society as a while.
On the whole, I do not trust adults to act in the best interest of the society they live in. Historically, they haven't proven they deserve that trust.
ETA another quote in honor of Martin Luther King Day:
Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. --Martin Luther King, Jr.
Last edited by catherine; 1-19-15 at 11:01am.
"Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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Well if we're going to go down that road, there is no such thing as freedom - only force. You can do whatever you're capable of doing - and the government can do whatever it's capable of doing. The only difference is the level of force you can bring to bear on the government and the level of force the government can bring to bear on you.
And I did answer the question, I'm not sure. It's a really difficult issue. I know I would not want to live in a country where that sign I posted previously is the norm.
Public accommodation would include things like restaurants, airlines or selling off-the-shelf goods. Personal services might be taking photographs at a wedding, or tattoo art.
I think there's a difference between serving all comers with an identical service and being forced to take part in something on a personal level. Should someone be coerced, for instance to participate in an event they regard as an obscene parody of a sacrament, or to tattoo offensive words or images on a member of say, the Aryan Brotherhood?
Sure. You could believe in--and practice privately--any form of spirituality you prefer. Just don't expect government accommodations, tax exemptions, or a place in the public square...See Matthew 6:6. Really, it's a pipe dream.
And Libertarianism as proposed is, as well. It might work beautifully for a tiny minority of rich white males--basically, the one percent--while the rest of us would be consigned to a hellish existence reminiscent of Lord of the Flies or Somalia. Rank pollution and apartheid (just sue me!), for starters.
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