How to figure how much?

[rodeosweetheart]

This is a general post to get some differing viewpoints on family spending, for those of us who are empty nesters, with aging parents in the mix.

I'd like to get some ideas here, as I am feeling really overwhelmed by family obligations, perceived and real, and their impact on the sustainability of my lifestyle over the long haul.

I have obligated myself to give my son a part of a downpayment on a house. Which means I am obligated to do the same for the other two sons. This is okay, so long as they all don't need it at the same time, but I am giving the one the sum this year, and it is kind of freaking me out. At the end of last year, I gave another son money to move and to hire a divorce lawyer, and I am not expecting this money back. I also gave him money for my grandson's medical bills. Another son got nothing for college, because he dropped out, and I'd like to give him what I gave the others, but at least give him part of a house downpayment, if he ever gets to that point where he is buying a house.

I have also started accounts for my two grandchildren and want to add to them each year, but I am just nervous about the long range sustainability of this. It only came to a head when I needed to help the one unexpectedly last year, and when I rather grandly offered the house downpayment (why the hell did I do that, I wonder).

Then there are the parents, who are going to be requiring more travel funds and possibly moving in with us, which will mean adapting the house for disabilities, etc.

I have been accustomed to doing things like paying for their travel (the kids) to come see us, or to a family reunion, renting the space, but I think am going to have to let go of this, as well as letting go of the kind of birthday and Christmas presents I have been giving them over the past 10 years since they moved out. The bank of mom is going to have to close down, except for the house downpayment help and true emergencies. And even the true emergencies are going to have to be limited--I just cannot keep doing this.

It is not the kids--I keep offering. (What is wrong with me?)

What do you all do on this subject, to rein yourself in so that long term, you can help/give/stay involved but still not endanger your long term sustainabiliy?

Just looking for ideas and what you all do,and thanks.

They pay their own bills, etc, most of the time, anyway, and have only come to me with emergencies,

Do the rest of you obey certain guidelines--like saying okay, I will only give x percent, or how gifts and travel will be handled from now on, as I get older, and their income increases?

Thanks in advance for ideas you might have.

[TxZen]

My parents have given me zilch, not even when it was an true emergency. I am looking forward to hearing what others do as well, because I don't know what to do for my own son when he gets older. Thanks.

[catherine]

I so relate, rodeosweetheart! First of all, I was blessed with getting my undergrad paid for by my grandfather and that left me with a sense of obligation to do the same for my children at least--which I've done for the most part. Just like you, one of my sons hasn't gone to college yet, even though he's 30, but if he ever expresses an interest, I'm worried about how I'm going to make it fair and give him his just due… especially since I allowed my DD to go to an expensive private school and I'll be paying that off for years. (I'll admit that was a mistake. I should have limited what I gave her for tuition). I finished paying my student loans for her, and I've told her that I'll pay the ones in her name, until I can't. So I'm thinking, if DS30 decides to go to college, I may have to have that discussion with DD.

I have this number in my head for each of the four kids for wedding/house down payment, etc. It's not a large sum, especially considering what it costs to get married and buy a house, but it's the most that I think I can afford, and I'm pretty sure I really can't afford it. And, like you, I'm hoping everything doesn't happen at once, because no one will get anything in that case!

As for the grandchildren, yes, I was hoping to open a 529 or something for my new GS christening and try to contribute even a small amount, like $50 a month.

Thankfully, parents on both sides have passed. (that sounds weird but I'm sure you know what I mean).

So, really, I can't give you much advice, but just wanted to share that I hear ya. At this point. the kids know my financial situation and I've told them point blank that I will a) never cosign anything again, and b) I'll happily give them my present money if I have it, but not my future money. BDTD and crashed and burned. I know they'll understand, so it's really me coming to terms with my being satisfied with what I can do for them. I do think it helps to set those expectations clearly. I used to give my frequent flier miles away very generously, but I'm not traveling as much, so the last time the kids came down, I had to tell them that I'm running low and I'm not willing to give anymore out until I build up the bank. I think being as transparent with my kids about ability to fund stuff keeps me from feeling guilty.

[dmc]

I bought my kids cars and paid for their college. They are now on there own and have not asked for anything. I have sent money for plane tickets for them to visit us in Florida. I sure don't want to visit them in the winter. But that was to make the wife happy. If an emergency came up I would help them out, they are going to end up with something when I am gone anyway.

So far they have done fine on their own.

My dad is doing fine, but if he needed anything I would help him out. He also bought me cars and paid for my college when I was a kid. And I always knew that I was always welcome at home if for some reason I couldn't make it on my own.

[sweetana3]

My parents gave us the ability to go to college. One of us completed the work. They did this because they refused to fill out the financial aid application. We went to state schools and chose the most affordable option. (It was 40+ years ago).

Over the 40 years, my brother may have borrowed a little as he was the least responsible with money. They paid for the $500 wedding I had 42 years ago. Other than that, we were considered self supporting and we all were. They left us what was in the accounts when both died but if zero, it would have been fine. To this day, I am glad that I had to work for what I wanted and learned the value of saving and patience.

We have friends that are spending their funds on their three adult kids and grandkids. All the kids are self supporting in dual income families. I hope the parents have enough for retirement. A fine balance is needed.

Best thing to do if you have multiple kids is to have a serious conversation with them.

Forgot to add that we have always helped out my husband's parents. They lived on very little (had little education and minimum wage jobs) but stretched it very far. We have taken them on vacations, helped them buy a little house, paid their real estate taxes, and now give money each month to his mother to help her out. This is really because we make 6+ times more than she does and does not cause us any hardship.

[dmc]

But you also have to take care of yourself, unless your certain that the kids will help you if needed. If the kids are not asking, why are you offering if your worried that it might put you in a bind? Save the money until a true emergency comes up or your sure you won't need it.

[catherine]

I've kept this article in my desk drawer ever since I ripped it out of a Family Circle magazine in November of 1977. I was pregnant with my first son at the time. I think has stood the test of time

What Do Parents Owe Their Children?
By Ann Landers
If I had to select a word that best describes the majority of American parents that word would be guilt-ridden. It's often sad to see parents becoming the willing victims of the "give-me-game" only to discover that, no matter what they do, it's not enough. Finally they are despised for the lack of firmness and blamed when their children get into trouble. With this in mind I’ll try to answer the question: "What do parents owe their children?", but I'll start with what they don't owe them.
Parents don't owe their children every minute of their day and every ounce of their energy. They don't owe them round-the-clock car service, sing¬ing lessons, tennis lessons, expensive bicycles, a motorcycle or a car when they reach sixteen, or a trip to Europe when they graduate.
I take the firm position that pa¬rents don't owe their children a college education. If they can afford it, fine: they can certainly send them to the best universities. But they mustn't feel guilty if they can't. If the children really want to study, they'll find a way. There are plenty of loans and scholarships for the bright and eager who can't afford to pay.
After children marry, their parents don't owe to buy a house for them or give money for the furniture. They don't have an obligation to baby-sit or to take their grandchildren in their home when the parents are on vacation. If they want to do it, it must be considered as a favor, not an obliga¬tion.
In my opinion, parents don't owe their children an inheritance, no matter how much money they have. One of the surest ways to produce a loafer is to let children know that their fu¬ture is assured.
Do parents owe their children anything? Yes, they owe them a great deal.
One of their chief obligations is to give their children a sense of personal worth, because self-esteem is the basis of a good mental health. A youngster who is constantly made to feel stupid, constantly compared to brighter brothers, sisters or cousins, will become so unsure, so afraid of failing, that he (or she) won't try at all. Of course, they should be corrected when they do wrong — this is the way children learn. But the criticism should be balanced with praises, preferably with a smile and a kiss. No child is ever too old to be hugged.
Parents owe their children firm guidance and consistent discipline. It's frightening for a youngster to feel that he is in charge of himself; it's like being in a car without brakes.
Parents owe their children some religious training. The fact that so many strange cults are enjoying such suc¬cess is proof that children feel the need for something spiritual in their life.
Parents owe their children a com¬fortable feeling about their body, and enough information about sex to bal¬ance the misinformation that they will certainly get from their friends.
Parents owe their children privacy and respect for their personal belongings. This means not borrowing things without permission, not reading dia¬ries and mail, not looking through purses, pockets and drawers. If a mother feels that she must read her daughter's diary to know what is going on, the communication between them must be pretty bad.
Parents owe their children a set of solid values around which to build their lives. This means teaching them to respect the rights and opinions of others; it means being respectful to elders, to teachers and to the law. The best way to teach such values is by
example. A child who is lied to will lie. A child who sees his parents steal tools from the factory or towels from a hotel will think that it's all right to steal.
No child asks to be born. If you bring a life into the world, you owe the child something. And if you give him his due, hell have something of value to pass along to your grandchil¬dren.

[rodeosweetheart]

But you also have to take care of yourself, unless your certain that the kids will help you if needed. If the kids are not asking, why are you offering if your worried that it might put you in a bind? Save the money until a true emergency comes up or your sure you won't need it.

That's what I am thinking about--why AM I offering? I have to figure that out. As you say, I want to be able to help in an emergency, but realistically, maybe all I can offer after a certain point is a place to land if they need to temporarily.

Thank you all for these answers-- so many good points, and I think you are all raising the points I have been pondering. I definitely want to give them what my parents gave me, and also help my parents in future. I'm not doing much beyond what my parents did for me, along the line--I had to borrow money from my mother to pay for a divorce, for example, though I paid her back. Our college educations were paid for by parents and grandparents via inheritance. I want to keep things fair among the children, and I want to do things for the grandchildren, like the 529, because my grandparents did things for us.

I've done the things like plane tickets to let them visit when they were working terrible jobs--as much for me, to get to see them, as for them, I guess.

Catherine, I really, really like what you said about only using present money, not future money. That is so important, I think, and why I am bringing this up. I have to scale all of this to whatever I can afford now but also in the future, and now times 3 kids. I have to figure out a line item budget for family, and then stick to it.

Really, what I want to do is to scale back our lifestyle right now so that we can move into retirement at some point at the lower level of expense--to get used to it now and to make it sustainable, so that the retirement years are fulfilling and don't feel like deprivation. And looking at what we spent this year, what jumped out was how much we spent on our two families, and that we can't continue at this level of spending.

[rodeosweetheart]

Thank you, Catherine for that article--that is really nice, and I needed to read that right now.

[Float On]

My parents feel that everything has to be equal. If they send me $500 for some emergency, they also send $500 to my brother even though he does better than all of us.
I don't know if it's because my brother and I argued a lot while growing up (both of us threw out the "it's not fair" statement way too much) but my dad has a ledger he has kept of all moneys invested in the kids to "keep it fair". They've even figured out how to divide the farm between the two of us to keep it fair after death.

My husband comes from a wealthy family and his three siblings did a lot better than we did. His mom has helped us a lot but not offered the same to the others because of how well they've done. She did invest $5000 for each grandchild at birth and that is basically all the grand kids have rec'd to this point. I don't think there has been any hard feelings from his siblings about the amount of money that his mom has helped us with, there are no charts or "keeping things fair" like my side.