End of the American Dream

[Ultralight]

Maybe you would enjoy this website: The Center for the New American Dream. They have interesting thoughts and resources:

Here's the link on their site to "Redefining the Dream"

https://www.newdream.org/programs/redefining-the-dream

I have heard of that, though (surprisingly?) I have not checked it out.

Thanks for link. I am looking it over now.

[LDAHL]

People keep referring to "The American Dream" as if it were some sort of standard benchmark, usually in terms of how it isn't being realized. I wonder if it isn't a lot more subjective than that; maybe to the point where we're not really talking about the same thing. Is it living on a farm or freestanding house you own yourself? Is it a lifestyle arbitrated by government and guaranteed at some level by taxpayers? Is it a level playing field where you can succeed or fail on your own merits? Is it about dignity rather than economics? Is it more about equality than it is about freedom (I've heard it said that freedom is the primary cause of inequality)?

Is the American Dream just a straw man we put out there to argue for our individual aspirations against what we see to be the obstacles?

[Ultralight]

People keep referring to "The American Dream" as if it were some sort of standard benchmark, usually in terms of how it isn't being realized. I wonder if it isn't a lot more subjective than that; maybe to the point where we're not really talking about the same thing. Is it living on a farm or freestanding house you own yourself? Is it a lifestyle arbitrated by government and guaranteed at some level by taxpayers? Is it a level playing field where you can succeed or fail on your own merits? Is it about dignity rather than economics? Is it more about equality than it is about freedom (I've heard it said that freedom is the primary cause of inequality)?

Is the American Dream just a straw man we put out there to argue for our individual aspirations against what we see to be the obstacles?

The house, the garage, the 3 kids, and the cars have never had much appeal to me and they continue to look more like a pit full of vipers than a dream, in my eyes anyway.

I mostly just want more free time. That is my dream, as an "American."

[LDAHL]

The house, the garage, the 3 kids, and the cars have never had much appeal to me and they continue to look more like a pit full of vipers than a dream, in my eyes anyway.

I mostly just want more free time. That is my dream, as an "American."

It could be that. It could be life as a perpetual grad student, artist or subsistence farmer. It could be a life of service or a life of self-indulgence. It could be a house, car and kids in a decent private school. It could be a corner office or your name on a building. It could be an Alpha Romeo Spider Veloce or Harley Davidson Flathead.

I think sometimes the various aspirations come into conflict when we feel we don't have the means to make them happen or resent being called on to subsidize other people's aspirations.

[Alan]

People keep referring to "The American Dream" as if it were some sort of standard benchmark, usually in terms of how it isn't being realized. I wonder if it isn't a lot more subjective than that; maybe to the point where we're not really talking about the same thing.

I'm convinced you're right. In my mind, The American Dream is only measurable or definable on an individual basis, as it has no physical manifestation. I think The American Dream is actually a potential, open to all in a land of opportunity, yet guaranteed to none.

[catherine]

Is the American Dream just a straw man we put out there to argue for our individual aspirations against what we see to be the obstacles?

Really interesting question! When I think American Dream I think of Ellis Island and the multitudes of people who came to THIS country as opposed to any other to have their hopes fulfilled. Not sure if you could easily codify those hopes, but I think American Dream has been synonymous with "land of opportunity" and "freedom"--that freedom can be interpreted to be as much about building the next big store chain or being able to wander the country like Jack Kerouac.

I think people think of American Dream via any number of platitudes about "work hard and you'll succeed." I think it also represents the Melting Pot. No one is an outsider, because we all are outsiders. So, I think it means a lot of things to a lot of different people. Of course it hasn't always delivered on the promise, and it's often a symbol more than a reality, but it's still drawing lots of people here.

[LDAHL]

I'm convinced you're right. In my mind, The American Dream is only measurable or definable on an individual basis, as it has no physical manifestation. I think The American Dream is actually a potential, open to all in a land of opportunity, yet guaranteed to none.

I think you put it better than I did. My vision of the good life I wanted to achieve for myself thirty years ago is a great deal different from what I aspire to today, but the sense that it is possible to achieve my goals remains constant.

[LDAHL]

Really interesting question! When I think American Dream I think of Ellis Island and the multitudes of people who came to THIS country as opposed to any other to have their hopes fulfilled. Not sure if you could easily codify those hopes, but I think American Dream has been synonymous with "land of opportunity" and "freedom"--that freedom can be interpreted to be as much about building the next big store chain or being able to wander the country like Jack Kerouac.

I think people think of American Dream via any number of platitudes about "work hard and you'll succeed." I think it also represents the Melting Pot. No one is an outsider, because we all are outsiders. So, I think it means a lot of things to a lot of different people. Of course it hasn't always delivered on the promise, and it's often a symbol more than a reality, but it's still drawing lots of people here.

And that seity may be where the "dream" gets it's power over the imagination. Whether it's referred to hopefully, proudly, wistfully or contemptuously it seems to mean something different based on who's talking. But we still keep using it; and as you point out it has the power to get people to endure extraordinary risks and hardships to come here. I never hear people talk about the German Dream or the Bolivian Dream. It may because America puts a greater emphasis on the individual (rightly or wrongly) than the collective.

[Rogar]

The Center for a New American Dream conducted a survey in 2014. It has the results for questions like, is the dream harder to realize, what are the barriers to achieving the dream, and what qualities constitute the American Dream. The 1800 survey contacts appear to be random, although the questions might be a little leading towards a less consumer based lifestyle. https://newdream.s3.amazonaws.com/19...alAnalysis.pdf

[LDAHL]

The Center for a New American Dream conducted a survey in 2014. It has the results for questions like, is the dream harder to realize, what are the barriers to achieving the dream, and what qualities constitute the American Dream. The 1800 survey contacts appear to be random, although the questions might be a little leading towards a less consumer based lifestyle. https://newdream.s3.amazonaws.com/19...alAnalysis.pdf

How can you measure progress toward something as chimerical as the "American Dream"? How do you measure the gap between dream and reality when all the respondents have a different dream? How do you go about "redefining the American Dream" when there are as many definitions as dreamers? This organization seems interested in moving us toward becoming a nation of Brooklyn Hipsters. I'm sure we could probably do a great deal worse, but is there any chance whatever that we would ever reach that level of consensus?

In my mind the problem with Utopian thinking is that it requires planing down the crooked timber of humanity for the required building material, and that will sooner or later involve coercion.