Recovering hoarders?

[Teacher Terry]

CL: thanks for sharing, your thoughts are so interesting. DH Mom's was a great lady but a hoarder. He loves living in a neat, clean home however, he needs zones where he can keep crap and be a mess. I don't understand it. It feels so much calmer/better to not be in chaos for me. I am an ENTJ. However, now that I have gotten older I need alone time. I never did when younger. The nesting instinct is wanting your personal space to feel good. so you decorate to make it feel that way. As I am aging I find I need less stuff to feel better. I also don't want to burden my kids with getting rid of a bunch of crap if I die. When I go into a model home it feels so good. One of the tricks they use is to have no small nik-naks. Only large items. This keeps it from feeling cluttered. So I am trying to replicate that although I do have some small stuff but it all fits into a small curio cabinet. I got rid of anything that didn't.

[Chicken lady]

Thanks. It helps to talk about it and you guys have been really supportive. i also remember how much it helped when I came across a book that talked about the psychology behind hoarding and how my mind just kept going, yes, yes, yes. Having something to work with besides "just get rid of the stuff" was huge. So if I can help anybody else understand, I think that is great.

[Teacher Terry]

So many people are affected by this issue but lately it has become acceptable to talk about which is great. In the past many would hide it. I think you have been making great progress on your home. Although never a hoarder when I was younger I had a ton of stuff to dust etc and if someone would have suggested it was too much I would not have been happy) We all change when we are ready. Hugs)

[Ultralight]

UA, I think I would reach a point where I said "enough". It would just be well outside of normal. Right now my "stuff" problem (my personal stuff problem, not my social/family stuff problem) is lack of space - either appropriate storage space or the ability to use the space I have.

I was thinking, how is this different than greed?

[Chicken lady]

Well, in looking up definitions of greed, one is "a strong desire to get more of something." Which I think all humans experience.

another qualifies that with "more than one needs" which again, in a strict definition of "need" encompasses pretty much everybody on this board.

i know I have everything I truly need right now, so to want anything at all would be greedy. And yet, I am greedily awaiting my siding delivery.

a third definition includes "more than one's share." So it is definitely greedy of me to want to fill more than half of the storage space in my home.

eventually, you reach a point where a person has more than they could possibly ever use (and one would argue enjoy, and yet, maybe just knowing they own that island they will never get around to visiting makes them happy)

i think desire becomes a problem (greed) when it takes away from others or consumes your life. And in that way it does play into hoarding and the aspect of it that is selfish (just as drug addiction and untreated depression are selfish - they hurt those around you.)

but it is it "greedy" to want to keep 700 rubber bands that were on their way to the landfill? I don't know. One could also argue that it is greedy to fill up a landfill with items that are still useful.

[ToomuchStuff]

I was thinking, how is this different than greed?

Since you value experiences over stuff, isn't that also greed? I know a late friend of mine, considered himself greedy as he gave away $100K a year for years. He said in his reveal interviews, that giving is actually the greediest thing one can do, as the feelings it gives you.

[iris lilies]

Since you value experiences over stuff, isn't that also greed? I know a late friend of mine, considered himself greedy as he gave away $100K a year for years. He said in his reveal interviews, that giving is actually the greediest thing one can do, as the feelings it gives you.

Yes, and I will argue that even greedier is giving away other people's money. The Lady Bountiful who sashays around my neighborhood giving stuff bought with other people's money has a pretty sweet deal.

[Ultralight]

Since you value experiences over stuff, isn't that also greed?

Excellent question! Do I have enough experiences? Is wanting more greed?

And to clarify, while I know that for most people experiences contribute more to happiness than buying shtuff (at least according to the research -- and Jane will probably dispute this). But I am not on the bandwagon enough to tell everyone and their brother to go out and spend mucho diniero on jet setting around the world and such.

I am a big advocate of restraint, in most scenarios.

But put a cold, perfectly ripe watermelon in front of me and you will see greed manifest!

I know a late friend of mine, considered himself greedy as he gave away $100K a year for years. He said in his reveal interviews, that giving is actually the greediest thing one can do, as the feelings it gives you.

I would argue that this guy does not know what he is talking about. If you make that much money, I think you exploited the labor of others. Also: There is a difference, in most instances, between giving things away and simply refraining from taking them in the first place.

[catherine]

Since you value experiences over stuff, isn't that also greed? I know a late friend of mine, considered himself greedy as he gave away $100K a year for years. He said in his reveal interviews, that giving is actually the greediest thing one can do, as the feelings it gives you.

I hadn't thought about that. I always thought about greed in the context of material possessions, so I looked up greed in Wikipedia:

Greed (OE grǽdum) is an inordinate or insatiable longing, especially for wealth, status, and power.

As secular psychological concept, greed is an inordinate desire to acquire or possess more than one needs. The degree of inordinance is related to the inability to control the reformulation of "wants" once desired "needs" are eliminated. Erich Fromm described greed as "a bottomless pit which exhausts the person in an endless effort to satisfy the need without ever reaching satisfaction." It is typically used to criticize those who seek excessive material wealth, although it may apply to the need to feel more excessively moral, social, or otherwise better than someone else.

The purpose for greed, and any actions associated with it, is possibly to deprive others of potential means (perhaps, of basic survival and comfort) or future opportunities accordingly, or to obstruct them therefrom,, thus insidious and tyrannical or otherwise having negative connotation. Alternately, the purpose could be defense or counteraction from such dangerous, potential negotiation in matters of questionable agreeability. A consequence of greedy activity may be inability to sustain any of the costs or burdens associated with that which has been or is being accumulated, leading to a backfire or destruction, whether of self or more generally. So, the level of "inordinance" of greed pertains to the amount of vanity, malice or burden associated with it.

[Chicken lady]

So, given the new definition, I would say that hoarding is probably both inordinate and insatiable. (Like compulsive eating?). However, I do have mine under control to the point where it is no longer insatiable, so, the quote you pasted, would disqualify it from being greed by stating that there is a point of "enough".