Recovering hoarders?

[Ultralight]

If hoarding is a condition - the way depression or bulimia or anxiety is - what purpose does it serve to judge it? Asking whether being a hoarder is greedy would be like asking if a bulimic is wasteful for throwing up the food they eat. It misses the point.

What is the point?

[catherine]

I think when we see how hard it is to create change within ourselves we can be more compassionate, respectful, and realistic of how hard it is for others to create change within themselves. Especially when that change is not self-driven.

Well said. Unless you've walked in another person's shoes.....

Acceptance of people for who they are makes life easier for all involved.

[Ultralight]

Acceptance of people for who they are makes life easier for all involved.

Can you think of exceptions to this rule?

[catherine]

Can you think of exceptions to this rule?

No. Why would I go looking for exceptions, anyway? As a general rule, giving others the dignity of determining their own fate is the only option unless you're in law enforcement (OK, there's the exception).

[Ultralight]

Why would I go looking for exceptions, anyway?

To make sure that your idea holds water. You have heard of straw man fallacy, right?

There is a technique called Steel Man. This is where you imagine someone disagrees with you. So you build up the best possible versions of their argument. This helps to make sure your point is airtight.

[Ultralight]

I was reading some time back about weight loss. Apparently after 5 years only 3% of people who lose 50 lbs. or more will have kept it off. Most gain it back within 5 years. Many gain more back.

The 3% who keep it off work at it all the time. It is the primary focus of their life, or darned close to it.

So perhaps for someone to stop hoarding they would have to do the same thing, make it the primary focus of their life and work at it all the time.

[catherine]

To make sure that your idea holds water. You have heard of straw man fallacy, right?

There is a technique called Steel Man. This is where you imagine someone disagrees with you. So you build up the best possible versions of their argument. This helps to make sure your point is airtight.

I hate to pull rank, but I believe I'm about twice your age, so I don't need techniques. I've done my own experimentation in my life and my conclusion holds water.

[Ultralight]

I hate to pull rank, but I believe I'm about twice your age, so I don't need techniques. I've done my own experimentation in my life and my conclusion holds water.

That sounds like an appeal to authority fallacy. Just because you are older than me does not mean you could not benefit from using the Steel Man technique.

Tell me about your experiments and why your conclusion holds water.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I was reading some time back about weight loss. Apparently after 5 years only 3% of people who lose 50 lbs. or more will have kept it off. Most gain it back within 5 years. Many gain more back.

you could also see gaining it back within 5 years as success, because if they hadn't lost the 50 lbs in the first place they may have continued gaining instead and be an ADDITIONAL 50 pounds up (or whatever maybe only an additional 20 pounds up). Since it's very easy to gain weight as one gets older, and most people do, maintaining is a sort of success. Losing the weight may have given them the leeway to at least maintain their pre-diet weight, even though they somewhat overate in order to gain it back of course.

Part of why people may gain weight as they age (beyond metabolism and blah blah blah) is IMO because they focus excessively on losing weight toward some ideal rather than just preventing weight gain and being satisfied with that. While if they actually manage to lose weight this gives them some leeway, if they don't it probably just diverts energy from a more helpful focus on maintaining. Hoarding also tends to get worse as one gets older of course.

[herbgeek]

UL, we are not all your projects, and we don't all need to be fixed by you.