Prayapolooza in Houston

[Zigzagman]

You quote Paul Begala? Pleeez...The arrogance of the pseudo-intellegentsia in Texas...Let's get real

Paul Begala grew up in Stafford, which is right up the road from you, and he can tell some pretty dandy Nueces County stories himself. He went to the University of Texas and is actually the smarter half of Carville and Begala. He’s a local hero around here and rightly so. He’s a good man and he preaches something powerful. It was Begala who told me why I am a Democrat: “Am I my brother’s keeper? Yes!"

You know Rick Perry is a TINO. That is Texan in name only. He is the Texas version of Benedict Arnold. He has sold out handing over our roads to Spanish under the TTC. He has sold out to big Pharmaceutical Corporations trying to force young girls to take a vaccine claiming to immunize against cervical cancer. He sold out the school districts with his comment "The Texas Lege does not hire or fire a single teacher", after pushing to cut 6% of school funding and keep his 9 billion dollar "Slush Fund" for him and his cronies. The list is o and on. He is a genuine arse. And yet you defend him? Really?

Peace

[Zigzagman]

Our constitution's first ammendment says:
This simply means that there can be no official church or religion of the United States such as the Church of England. It's important to note the "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" part because that's what so many people would like to do to all elected officials.

The founders wanted separation of church and state. The intent was simply based on the ideology that they had escaped from...the Church of England...they wanted to insure that the government would not dictate a church or religion as ruled by the government to rule man. They believed in the their new ideals and that freedom meant that we as individuals would choose our religion or not. This idea that we are a "Christian Nation" is hogwash. We are a secular nation and will stay that way as long a free-thinking people stand up to the lunacy of religious dogma as it pertains to politics. It is indeed a slippery slope when you have political leaders pandering to one set of religious ideals or morals. The Bible, Koran, Talmud, Tao-te-ching, and Veda, etc. should allbe considered equal in this country and have no place in our government.

Peace

[The Storyteller]

As a Canadian, I probably shouldn't even comment, but....what happened to the separation of church and state? I am all for religion, but I don't think it has a place in politics, or vise versa. This could be a very slippery slope to start on.

That slope is done slipped.

[Alan]

The founders did not want a state religion. They had no intention of removing any religion from the nation or prohibiting the free belief in whatever religion a person felt an affinity for.
There is no basis to believe that they would deny religious principles from elected officials or government institutions. That is a modern concept.

[flowerseverywhere]

If I offended anyone I did not mean to, but back to what I wrote before "We can all find quotes to fit our needs and biblical scholars to back up our beliefs, but isn't all about being a good loving person, honoring our parents, not discriminating, loving our spouses (and being faithful) and children, not stealing and lying, and helping those who are downtrodden and sickly no matter which book you read?"

I have done a lot of reading of religious holy books and history of religions to try to understand but I am a long way from figuring it out. The questions I asked about even the ten commandments no-one tackled. But here is my most interesting observation here. This thread about this event has generated pages of responses. I recently posted a thread in Making a difference about a wonderful book I had read that showed how to really make a difference with your charitable giving to help the poorest of the worlds poor and it got one response.

How many truly "godly" people have you met in your life? People who seem to devote their life not to promoting themselves or gathering material goods but in doing good and living an admirable life? I haven't met many, but the few I have met have had a profound impact on me. One was a Methodist minister who had gathered not only his church but much of the small community we once lived in to start a soup kitchen and food pantry, raise money to dig a well in Africa, then send them all kinds of farming tools and a few bicycles, and solar cookers. He was still going strong 20 years later last I heard and it still doesn't matter to him what religion, race, sexual orientation or economic status you were, if you wanted to be a part of his mission, you were welcome. All the words in the world mean nothing, it is actions that say it all. With all the hot water our politicians seem to get into I don't think many are good examples of being a good Christian as almost anyone would define it.

[Catwoman]

I have never been a fan of Rick Perry, and while I know that he is doing this for political motives, the condescension (sp?) with which a large gathering of Christians to pray is viewed and the rhetoric surrounding it are , I think, mean-spirited. I also think a call to prayer for our nation, even by this guy, could be a good thing. Some of what I have read here directed toward followers of Jesus could even be considered "hate-speech". Were words with similar tone directed towarded other groups of the population there would be loud screaming and gnashing of teeth coming from the left.

ETA: I know who Paul Begala is - stopped buying Texas Monthly for awhile because of that arrongant, wormy little city boy.

[The Storyteller]

Some of what I have read here directed toward followers of Jesus could even be considered "hate-speech"... I know who Paul Begala is - stopped buying Texas Monthly for awhile because of that arrogant, wormy little city boy.

Priceless.

[Gregg]

*** MOD HAT ON ***

Some of what I have read here directed toward followers of Jesus could even be considered "hate-speech". Were words with similar tone directed towarded other groups of the population there would be loud screaming and gnashing of teeth coming from the left.

I strongly disagree and, in fact, find that all of the posters here have done an admirable job keeping their posts directed at institutions and/or topics and away from other posters. That is job one of the forum guidelines. I posted an earlier mod comment as a kind of preemptive strike, just a gentle reminder of the guidelines. It probably wasn't necessary, but we've all seen threads that mix religion and politics degrade quickly so maybe I was just a little jumpy.

The opinion of a devout Christian, a Muslim, an atheist or even those of us without any religion whatsoever all carry the same weight and deserve the same respect here in the forums. Threads will not be locked because someone was offended by another poster who offers their opinion without any sign of a personal attack or malicious conduct.

Simply put, there are no sacred cows. To those of you with strong religious beliefs I applaud your ability to accept things I can not. The question is whether or not someone devout in their belief is able to accept that others might hold a different view. If you can accept that then there is a lot to be gained from discussions like this. If that is difficult to accept I suspect there will be a lot of posts that could be considered offensive that are perfectly legitimate and well within forum guidelines.

[peggy]

The founders did not want a state religion. They had no intention of removing any religion from the nation or prohibiting the free belief in whatever religion a person felt an affinity for.
There is no basis to believe that they would deny religious principles from elected officials or government institutions. That is a modern concept.

That's a straw man Alan. You know perfectly well no one is advocating taking any one's religion away. The government (which I keep reminding is us) is not trying/wanting to abolish religion. Of course a persons values will direct his/her actions, which has absolutely nothing to do with religion (values I mean) as it has been proven again and again that non religious people hold the same values as religious people. Fiscal policy is not a moral value, it's an ideology. And allowing the republican party to conflate the two is where we have the problem.
There is a huge difference between a politician praying, and one who jumps up to a podium shouting, "Let us pray".

[creaker]

"There is a huge difference between a politician praying, and one who jumps up to a podium shouting, "Let us pray". "

Well said.