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Thread: Another school shooting, multiple fatalities

  1. #311
    Senior Member dmc's Avatar
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    What do you think will happen if they were to ban certain guns? Last time it just meant they could not sell to the general public. There were none taken out of circulation.

    And properly cared for they can last for generations.

  2. #312
    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    Should this guy have been able to buy a gun?

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/30...ir-report.html

    26 yearold with a non immigrant visa, college student in Florida. does He have second amendment rights?

    by the way, I Am not anti second amendment. Just looking for clarification.

  3. #313
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere View Post
    Should this guy have been able to buy a gun?

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/30...ir-report.html

    26 yearold with a non immigrant visa, college student in Florida. does He have second amendment rights?

    by the way, I Am not anti second amendment. Just looking for clarification.
    Yes, I think he had second amendment rights as a legal visitor to this country. In my view, the second amendment doesn't give us rights, it codifies natural rights and limits the government's ability to restrict or take away. Anyone considering the Bill of Rights as something the government has given them is missing the point and accepting the government as their master rather than their servant.

    This fellow is facing deportation not because he bought a gun, but because he failed to meet the requirements of his visa by not attending classes. The "sniper rifle" comments and change in behaviors accelerated the process.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  4. #314
    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Yes, I think he had second amendment rights as a legal visitor to this country. In my view, the second amendment doesn't give us rights, it codifies natural rights and limits the government's ability to restrict or take away. Anyone considering the Bill of Rights as something the government has given them is missing the point and accepting the government as their master rather than their servant.

    This fellow is facing deportation not because he bought a gun, but because he failed to meet the requirements of his visa by not attending classes. The "sniper rifle" comments and change in behaviors accelerated the process.
    in the context of natural rights, you are referring to what is covered in the constitution? Interesting that in China it would have not been legal for him to own these weapons yet he can come here as a legal visitor and own them.

    He cannot get get a job off campus, cannot vote, has no representative in Congress yet can buy whatever firearm he wants. I see it says that applicants for this visa are fingerprinted. Do you know what type of background checks are done in their home country? I could not find that info. Very interesting.

  5. #315
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere View Post
    in the context of natural rights, you are referring to what is covered in the constitution? Interesting that in China it would have not been legal for him to own these weapons yet he can come here as a legal visitor and own them.
    No, natural rights are not limited to a specific number, the Constitution simply affirms that some of the more important ones are beyond the scope of governments reach.

    The fact that China doesn't trust its citizens doesn't mean that the US should follow suit, even if the US had the authority to do so. As a communist country, the Chinese people are not individuals with free will and natural rights, they are part of the collective that only enjoys whatever human rights the governing party allows. I find it remarkable that so many in the US would like to emulate that reality.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  6. #316
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    My understanding was that natural law theory posits certain rights that exist independently of government's power to create or confer. That doesn't mean that governments can't abridge or violate them, however. I think the great advantage a republic such as ours enjoys over a more direct form of democracy is that such rights are difficult enough to abridge that the fleeting emotions of the moment are insufficient to drive permanent change. It's like the Framers put together a list of rights that were too important to capriciously vote, re-interpret or regulate away. That's a good thing in my opinion.

    While the frustrated autocrat in all of us might sometimes long for the power to "get things done", I'm glad things are the way they are.

  7. #317
    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    No, natural rights are not limited to a specific number, the Constitution simply affirms that some of the more important ones are beyond the scope of governments reach.

    The fact that China doesn't trust its citizens doesn't mean that the US should follow suit, even if the US had the authority to do so. As a communist country, the Chinese people are not individuals with free will and natural rights, they are part of the collective that only enjoys whatever human rights the governing party allows. I find it remarkable that so many in the US would like to emulate that reality.
    I don’t want to take away or limit responsible citizens guns. I just see no value to society if Mentally Ill people have guns. I see no value if non citizens have guns. I see no value in Felons being able to buy guns at shows or over the internet. Explain to me what the value is.

  8. #318
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    To completely change tack, If we can stop your iPhone from working without your fingerprint, why can’t we stop your gun from firing?

  9. #319
    Senior Member dmc's Avatar
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    It’s against the law now for felons to buy a gun, also mentally ill. I’ve also purchased guns at a gun show, but still had to go thru a background check, same as with buying over the internet. Guns must be shipped to a FFL holder and he runs the background check.

    There are plenty of laws now on the books, why not enforce them. Who do more laws impact? Just the law abiding.

  10. #320
    Senior Member dmc's Avatar
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    I’m guessing gun and ammo sales will start going up again. Time for me to start stocking up on powder and primers.

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