Difficult to love?

[Ultralight]

UL it seems obvious to me that you value your various identity markers more than relationships.

What Alan does not seem to understand is that "identity markers" usually come with certain practices, certain ways of life.

A heavy metal guitar shredder, for instance, probably wants to play loud guitar and listen to Ozzy at high volume.

A Buddhist probably wants quiet time and space to to meditate for long periods frequently.

Now sure, a Buddhist and metal guitarist could find compromises, like the Bhuddist could say: "No playing guitar in your own home."

And maybe certain people would think that is simply asking for a reasonable compromise. But the guitarist might think: "In my own home? This request is an affront to my identity and what I love doing! That is not compromise."

Identity markers aren't just: "I am a _______".

Identity markers mean: "I do ______"

[herbgeek]

I have the right to ask for what I want. I also am well within my rights to terminate a relationship if I am unhappy with it for any reason. I am also within my rights to say: "Minimize or we break up."

You're absolutely correct. You also have the right to start threads that are titled "difficult to love".

[Ultralight]

You're absolutely correct. You also have the right to start threads that are titled "difficult to love".

And people can ignore or join in the threads. The moderators can delete them or tell me not to create threads.

[SteveinMN]

I know I can't "demand" my DH stops smoking, but I can tell him that he is not allowed to smoke in the house.

No, I am not controlling him. He's an adult. He can smoke all he wants. But the house is co-owned and co-habited and I have a right to ask him to smoke outside.

And he has a right to refuse the request. Not trying to be "that guy" (and not indicating agreement with UL's approach to relationships) but the first quote upthread does not imply negotiation; it sets what I believe UL calls a "benchmark" and I can understand why he views it no differently than how he views a minimalist home he shares with his partner (the "who-gets-the-room-that-meets-their-preference" discussion).

[Tybee]

I think couples negotiate things that they will and will not do. If someone goes and does something behind someone's back, like has an affair or opens a credit card and runs up secret debt--that will lead to a feeling of betrayal and a rupture in the relationship. Only the couple determines what are those boundaries in the relationship. For some it might be smoking in house after agreeing not to, letting dog run off leash when it is unsafe to do so, voting for Donald Trump, owning too many tschokes (sp?), speeding, speaking to partner in a cold tone of voice, bringing up old grievances, or sponge painting the front hall (a real life example from my own marriage, that my first husband could not forgive me for doing)-- these are all things that people might elect to fight about or break up over.

It sounds like in the OP's case, the couple could not agree on mutual boundaries and realized it was a good idea for both of them to part. It's inevitable to feel grief at any parting, but unless the love bringing you together outweighs the problems tearing you apart, being together is not going to work and it's better to end it.

And of course it still hurts a lot!! Sorry for your pain, OP.

[Alan]

I have the right to ask for what I want. I also am well within my rights to terminate a relationship if I am unhappy with it for any reason. I am also within my rights to say: "Minimize or we break up."

Which brings us to this latest in the ongoing series of threads regarding your love life. Maybe it will be different next time, good luck!

[catherine]

And he has a right to refuse the request. Not trying to be "that guy" (and not indicating agreement with UL's approach to relationships) but the first quote upthread does not imply negotiation; it sets what I believe UL calls a "benchmark" and I can understand why he views it no differently than how he views a minimalist home he shares with his partner (the "who-gets-the-room-that-meets-their-preference" discussion).

Hmmm.. what's the difference between a benchmark and a boundary? And if something is really important to someone is it wrong to establish non-negotiables?

If DH said to me, "scr*w you, I'm smoking in my house," then I'd have to determine whether I'd be willing to compromise. Would I separate or divorce my husband over this? I don't know.

BTW, I agree with you that my no-smoking boundary is like UL's expectation that he has a right to a minimal living space if that's important to him. I've already said that.

[dado potato]

Live, Love, Laugh...

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LIVE simply, dream big. Be grateful. Give LOVE. LAUGH lots
-- Pillow Cushion

[Zoe Girl]

Ya know I was thinking about my marriage (ended many years ago after 15 years). I was vegetarian, punk kid, Buddhist. My ex was meat eater, metal head and pot smoker. So we had things to work out. He came home high and drunk and woke me up so I said no way. That was a boundary of respect. However his family were hunters, I never tried to change that about him. I talked to him and his dad because I didn't understand it, I came from the suburbs, and actually changed my mind a little when I learned about responsible hunting. It was frustrating that I was teased the entire time about my food! But that kinda happened everywhere I went even with my own family. After awhile with kid food allergies we changed to eating meat, I had to learn how to cook everything. Still the entire time we were vegetarian he could cook meat to go with the meal, I never had an issue with it and it was not something I kept score on. I simply didn't know how to cook meat safely or in a way that was edible and I cooked almost all the meals.

I think I get the sense from this that there is a scorecard or a fixed sense of the relationship. Even in 15 years there were many things that changed and we had to negotiate, even after we were divorced. I asked that with guns our son attend hunter safety classes (he never expected the girls to have guns). I also checked in before I shaved the kids' heads into mowhawks. After the divorce it was hard not to keep a compromise checklist, still we were able to negotiate some things and both have a bottom line.


Turns out that the difference between punk and metal was a total non-concern. Our kids like The Clash and Metalica.

[Teacher Terry]

Ultimatums do not make for good relationships. It is not a win-win. Without compromise a relationship will not last or will be full of resentment. The very definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Keep taking that spoiled milk out of the refrigerator, take a drink and be shocked it’s still spoiled and then put it back for the next day.