Repeal of Obamacare

[Zigzagman]

I did not say that. Everyone at some point in time needs health care. Hospitals and doctors would still be making good money but maybe not as much as they are now. Insurance companies would be out of the picture and their billions of dollars in profit and overhead could be used for health care. Look at the recent break through in leukemia treatment it was basically financed by an individual. Big pharama would not finance it because they did not see a big profit in it.

There are far too many profit points in the way our current health care system is structured. Health care will drive the country into bankruptcy.

Totally agree, Free. Instead of embracing the fact that our present healthcare system cannot be sustained and using the experience of the rest of the world in terms of services/cost ratio we seem to think that healthcare is simply another avenue to get profit and revenue. In fact one of the last left in the nation of greed. At some point it will happen because at this rate more and more people will simply drop out of our profit based system and use government services anyway.

Not only does it put our employers at a disadvantage with the rest of the world but we are simply pricing healthcare out of the grasp of working people. I really do believe that most people are "fed up" with the greedy capitalists in the US.

Peace

[Dharma Bum]

Instead of embracing the fact that our present healthcare system cannot be sustained and using the experience of the rest of the world in terms of services/cost ratio we seem to think that healthcare is simply another avenue to get profit and revenue.

Funny, I don't know anyone who thinks that. In fact I hear the opposite- that because it is so important we don't want to turn it over to the govt. Most of the apartment complexes I would live in are nicer than government housing, notwithstanding the evil profit motives of those nasty REITs. Now it is possible to get people a decent place to stay on public money though section 8 allowances, but those allowances rely on a private marketplace to actually provide the housing.

[Dharma Bum]

Just to show I'm a fair guy, I think the counterpoint to my housing analogy is education. Public education has its problems, but I think most people are generally OK with the system. Yes, it can and should be improved, but overall I don't think too many people want to go to a totally private or even voucher driven system.

[peggy]

So what makes health care different from food or energy production, or for that matter, housing? They're all necessary components of our lives.

Are you in favor of nationalizing all industries that people depend upon, in order to take the profit out of it?

Why don't we privatize police? How about fire protection? Are you for privatizing those? If you don't buy your 'fire protection insurance', well, good luck with the garden hose.
Lets make all roads private, so you can pay a toll on each and every road you drive on. Let's privatize air traffic control. I'm sure we could learn which airports kinda sorta hold the same standards and regulations we want. Let's privatize food inspection. In fact, lets do away with food inspection all together. We don't need no stinking regulations. Meat packers will look out for our best interest, right? Like China? Right?

[peggy]

Funny, I don't know anyone who thinks that. In fact I hear the opposite- that because it is so important we don't want to turn it over to the govt. Most of the apartment complexes I would live in are nicer than government housing, notwithstanding the evil profit motives of those nasty REITs. Now it is possible to get people a decent place to stay on public money though section 8 allowances, but those allowances rely on a private marketplace to actually provide the housing.

Really? Really? I guess you're not familiar with the whole INSURANCE business. Or any health care business, really. Or your favorite republican politician, who of course is making a killing in the health care business (where do you think their funding comes from, especially to kill any health care bill)
If no one was trying to use the pain and suffering of others to stuff their pockets, then an aspirin wouldn't cost $10 on your hospital bill, would it.

[Zigzagman]

Funny, I don't know anyone who thinks that. In fact I hear the opposite- that because it is so important we don't want to turn it over to the govt. Most of the apartment complexes I would live in are nicer than government housing, notwithstanding the evil profit motives of those nasty REITs. Now it is possible to get people a decent place to stay on public money though section 8 allowances, but those allowances rely on a private marketplace to actually provide the housing.

Agreed education is a major problem when it comes to our healthcare system. The issue becomes what is a better value for the cost. People are OK with the "system"? What frigging choice do they have?

Our system is not only more costly than any other in the Industrialized world but less effective. The government simply take the place of the insurance companies and makes the rules, like the insurance companies. I'll ask you - who would you want to determine your eligibility for care the government or an insurance company?, which would have the greater buying power?, who is already the provider of last resort even today? Given the choice which would an employer choose? If you want to see a real government healthcare system (one whose doctors, services, and all facilities are employed by the government) - check out the VA.

Peace

[Dharma Bum]

Why don't we privatize police?

I think we are justifiably concerned about abuse of police powers. We do privatize prisons since there seems to be less discretion there.

How about fire protection? Are you for privatizing those? If you don't buy your 'fire protection insurance', well, good luck with the garden hose.

Like this? http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/local...104052668.html

That's actually OK with me, I don't see anything special about protecting from property damage. We need to have some life protection in public spaces since there would be no way to sort out who paid for what in an emergency, but honestly that probably could be outsourced. I don't see it as a sacrosanct public function.

Lets make all roads private, so you can pay a toll on each and every road you drive on.

I'm in favor of usage fees for driving if there is a way to make it efficient. Likely not possible to make it efficient though.

Let's privatize air traffic control.

Why would that be so bad? http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/7101.html (BLOOMINGTON, Ind. -- The United States lags behind other developed countries in the structure and financing of its air traffic control system..... "Part of the problem is, we're the last major country that runs air traffic control with a government agency," Oster said.)

Let's privatize food inspection. In fact, lets do away with food inspection all together.

This is a non-sequitor. Privatizing doesn't mean eliminating.

[Dharma Bum]

If no one was trying to use the pain and suffering of others to stuff their pockets, then an aspirin wouldn't cost $10 on your hospital bill, would it.

I know it's fun to throw mud but ranting doesn't really advance your cause. Anyone who has looked at healthcare costs knows it's complicated. Just as likely to be caring for those poor that is driving that cost.

See http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2009/...ar_asprin.html

[poetry_writer]

I dont know the answer. I know a friend whos husband has an illness that will probably keep him from ever being able to return to the workforce. She is literally fighting with the hospital to keep him there, since he is uninsured they have tried to dump him out several times. I understand hospitals cant absorb all the costs. His meds alone are in the thousands of dollars per month.....If I get sick I have the ER. Period. Well meaning but ill informed friends with insurance say "oh go to the free clinic, ask them to let you pay it out (right), tell them you are unemployed (haha)"...and other stupid things. The free clinic here only covers bare bones basic care and is virtually useless if you are sick. I tried to apply for assistance from the hospital after an ER visit , there is a cute note at the bottom threatening me with legal action if I happen to have a dime to my name and dont tell them about it. In fact it says, I may go to prison. They want my bank acct numbers, everything about me. They are not getting it . I dont expect anything to change until our entire system crashes. Some folks have gotten very rich with our current system and are reluctant to have it pried from their greedy hands. But isnt that is what is wrong with the entire country.......

[creaker]

After sitting in MA for several years of Romneycare, I really don't understand why Obamacare is so rallied against.