Is There or Is There Not a Border Crisis?

[ApatheticNoMore]

Oh I have compassion for them, I never once said immigrants are bad people, never would, but hey I'm not Donald Trump.

But I think we should look at how badly resources are stretched here before letting the whole world in, which doesn't mean have zero immigration at all. But I care about quality of life in the U.S., which I know must be a sin or a thought crime or something to care about until all of Indian is lifted out of poverty or something, but how can one not, one has to live here. And some will say "how can resources be stretched, when the U.S. uses so many resources?". The U.S. uses too many natural resources in general and it's not sustainable. But I don't mean whether we have enough iphones when we insist on getting a new one every year, or even whether we waste too much food, but rather things like infrastructure, housing etc., some basic things in life that could all be very broadly classified as infrastructure, all stuff larger than individual consumer decisions, seems stretched to the breaking point.

As for whether people came here from Europe or not and what that says about contemporary Europe or the U.S., IMO not much. Europe was devastated by WWII. Even before then I can trace some ancestors who came here to escape the rigid class system in England. All very well and good, but the U.S. has one of the lowest economic mobilities in developed countries at present. That was then, this is now.

[Yppej]

Immediate post war Netherlands was a different place than now.

I read Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s book too.

VE Day was May 8, 1945 so I would not categorize 1961 as immediate post war.

[Gardnr]

VE Day was May 8, 1945 so I would not categorize 1961 as immediate post war.

I guess you had to be there to understand. Imagine that.

[bae]

I guess you had to be there to understand. Imagine that.

I suspect many Americans have no idea of what the conditions were like in Europe and the UK after the war, and how lucky we had it in the USA. Rationing in the UK didn't end until 1954, for instance.

There's a lady in a class I've been taking the past few months who grew up in the Netherlands during that time period, and her tales are quite informative.

[iris lilies]

VE Day was May 8, 1945 so I would not categorize 1961 as immediate post war.

Oh man I know that things were still pretty sparse in the UK in 1961. Assume the Netherlands would be similar.

[bae]

Oh man I know that things were still pretty sparse in the UK in 1961. Assume the Netherlands would be similar.

I think the rationing in the Netherlands was down to ~500 calories/adult a day by the end of the war. Tens of thousands died...from famine.

This was a fascinating article that came up in class:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5693569/

[razz]

I think the rationing in the Netherlands was down to ~500 calories/adult a day by the end of the war. Tens of thousands died...from famine.

This was a fascinating article that came up in class:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5693569/

That is an interesting read. I knew it was tough in parts of Europe but not that bad.

[Gardnr]

I think the rationing in the Netherlands was down to ~500 calories/adult a day by the end of the war. Tens of thousands died...from famine.

This was a fascinating article that came up in class:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5693569/

Yes. My parents saw many die of starvation. Mom said they ate 3 meals a month at most. There were 3 adult males getting a monthly paycheck which was consumed by food to feed a family of 9.

When Red Cross dropped pallets, Mom said you ate what you grabbed even if a pound of butter. Although it seemed selfish to her, she said you were soooo hungry you did it anyway.

This went on for years.

[Gardnr]

I suspect many Americans have no idea of what the conditions were like in Europe and the UK after the war, and how lucky we had it in the USA. Rationing in the UK didn't end until 1954, for instance.

There's a lady in a class I've been taking the past few months who grew up in the Netherlands during that time period, and her tales are quite informative.

Truth. When I went back in 1979, there was still evidence of the war. The wing of the church Mom was baptized in was blown up. It still had not been reconstructed as there were other priorities. The family records were also in this wing so all was destroyed. Birth records were kept in churches not "the statehouse".

She was dying of her cancer when the Iraq war was in full swing. I had to stop turning on the 530 news as it would make her cry with memories of WW2. "I know exactly how these women feel and the fear they have."

[Yppej]

Yes. My parents saw many die of starvation. Mom said they ate 3 meals a month at most.

The average month being 30 days this would mean people only ate one meal every 10 days. How did they not all die of starvation?