A Palestinian State

[catherine]

After the Third Punic War and the siege of Carthage, the Carthaginians ceased to trouble the Romans in any measurable fashion.

...and Rome lived happily ever after ... at least until the Visigoths and the Huns... :/

[bae]

...and Rome lived happily ever after ... at least until the Visigoths and the Huns... :/

Well, the 3rd Punic War was finished up ~146BCE, and the Western Roman Empire didn't really fall apart at the seams until ~400CE (I'm calling it at around the death of Theodosius ), so that's a solid ~550 years. And of course, the Eastern Empire kept right on truckin' for nearly another 1000 years. Not too terrible really.

I mean, my daughter's flat in Cambridge was built only ~50 years after Constantinople fell to the Ottomans. Positively recent history.

[LDAHL]

I thought what we were discussing was sending a ship to protect Israel from future attacks, from lowering the risk of attack by its neighbors. That is not an act of war.

Yes. The two strike groups have a considerable anti missile capability. The embarked aircraft and offensive missiles constitute a significant deterrent to moves by the Iranians. The forces in the Eastern Mediterranean are also available to extract US nationals from the area.

[LDAHL]

...and Rome lived happily ever after ... at least until the Visigoths and the Huns... :/

Somehow I doubt that if Scipio the Younger had adopted the Kumbaya approach there would have been peace and love ever after.

[Yppej]

People in the Middle East have been fighting for millennia and will fight for millennia more.

[bae]

People in the Middle East have been fighting for millennia and will fight for millennia more.

Well, if this current fight spirals out of control, there may not be a Middle East left to fight over.

[LDAHL]

People in the Middle East have been fighting for millennia and will fight for millennia more.

That’s pretty much true of anywhere.

[Tybee]

I very much like the idea of getting Americans out--I heard they are working on getting any Americans who want to leave Israel to come home. I would also support bringing Israelis who want to come here being welcomed.

[Yppej]

I very much like the idea of getting Americans out--I heard they are working on getting any Americans who want to leave Israel to come home. I would also support bringing Israelis who want to come here being welcomed.

Where would you put the Israelis? My state announced today as of Nov 1 all shelters will be maxed out. Right in time for winter.

[Rogar]

I'm not saying that... I'm saying that violence begets violence, no matter how just the retaliatory response. And unfortunately, people have a difficult time compartmentalizing the heinous acts of groups--whether they be splinter terrorist groups or political parties--against the the innocents of the same tribe, and the hate, scapegoating, and violence burns on and on.

I believe there is such a thing as mental anguish as a form of suffering as much as the physical agonies of war. For example, we could probably end the war in the Ukraine by ending our military funding, as some on the far right would like. And then what sort of oppression would the Ukraine be subjected to.

It's interesting how how it has turned into an American political power struggle that may have less to do with reality. I see Pence has called Biden "weak". Maybe we should send three carriers. And Donald claims this wouldn't have happened at all if he were president.

At one time I was more conversant on the Crusades, Saladin. and their battles for control of the Holy Land. Some things haven't changed, but are perhaps less bloody. As I recall, the Christians pretty much slaughtered all the Muslims and most of the Jews in the city when they captured Jerusalem. Saladin was slightly more merciful when he retook the city after a long siege and allowed many of the Christians to leave peaceably, other than taking a few thousand as slaves. Gone are the days when the elite give away all of their possessions and go off to fight Holy wars.