Government Coup

[Rogar]

A federal detention facility in Los Angeles where entrances/exits were blocked and rocks and bricks were thrown at employees trying to disperse the offenders. When ICE requested local police response, it took nearly 2 hours to arrive. Local police advised that it was too dangerous to enter the protest zone and that their presence may make the situation worse.

In this case we are assuming a 2 hour wait really matters that much. How would the troops have changed or escalated things? It looks like without invoking the insurrection act, the legal authority of the troops is limited to protecting the federal building and not policing the streets. Of course law has never stopped Trump. Newsom is suing, so we can assume there is a possibility of it being illegal..

It makes a nice diversion from trumps failing economy, tariffs, and the big beautiful bill, and is a show of political power. The practical functionality is in question.

Here's a comment form a legal authority.

...that for now the federalized troops appeared to have limited authority. Once deployed, they will be able to protect ICE agents and federal buildings against attacks by protesters but not to carry out immigration raids or police the city’s streets in general.

[Tybee]

It looks like without invoking the insurrection act, the legal authority of the troops is limited to protecting the federal building and not policing the streets.

...that for now the federalized troops appeared to have limited authority. Once deployed, they will be able to protect ICE agents and federal buildings against attacks by protesters but not to carry out immigration raids or police the city’s streets in general.

Except that the president has stated he sent in the troops to quell "rebellion."

I keep flashing back to that day at gym class when we heard about Kent State. It was less than an hour's drive away. We heard by 2 pm. And that before the internet and 24 hour news access. There weren't even computers.

[nswef]

I remember Kent state...

[iris lilies]

I remember Kent state...

Did ya’ll get nostalgic for Kent State when states like Washington called out their National Guard to address the weeks-on-end violence a few years ago? The only discussion I remember on these forums questioned the legitimacy of government imposed curfews which I think is a legitimate concern.

for the record, I also think it’s an area of concern when the President acts against a state’s wishes but I don’t mind that federal resources are being protected against idiot people who will destroy them for no gain.



IMG_8120.jpg

https://www.heraldnet.com/northwest/...loyd-protests/

[LDAHL]

The LA Police Chief has said his force was “overwhelmed” by the scale of the rioting. All those peaceful protesters burning cars and blocking streets was too much for them. I see Maxine Waters had herself filmed trying to force her way into a detention facility.

[catherine]

Did ya’ll get nostalgic for Kent State when states like Washington called out their National Guard to address the weeks-on-end violence a few years ago? The only discussion I remember on these forms is questioning the legitimacy of government imposed, curfews, which I think is a legitimate concern.

for the record, I also think it’s a area of concern when the President acts against state’s wishes but I don’t mind that federal resources are being protected against idiot people who will destroy them for no gain.

Yes, when I heard "National Guard" / "protesters" I immediately thought of Kent State. I agree this is another show of power by the Federal Government. It's funny how "Nanny G" means one thing to some people and something else to others.

ETA: I am not saying that the National Guard isn't needed in this case, at this point. Seems things are escalating.

[iris lilies]

Yes, when I heard "National Guard" / "protesters" I immediately thought of Kent State. I agree this is another show of power by the Federal Government. It's funny how "Nanny G" means one thing to some people and something else to others.

ETA: I am not saying that the National Guard isn't needed in this case, at this point. Seems things are escalating.

Nanny is always Nanny whether she is doing something we like or something we don’t like.

when the bigger government steps to solve the problems of the smaller government, I don’t know that it’s always legitimate. For instance, in our state, the state prosecutor’s office felt the need to step in to solve the dysfunctional problems of .st. Louis’ prosecutor’s office. I had mixed thoughts about that.

On the one hand, gee it would be nice if crime victims saw their perpetrators actually charged and experience appropriate consequences. On the other hand, I think the voting citizens of St. Louis deserve their city prosecutor and her shenanigans because they voted her in and protested loudly any action to remove her from office. You want thieves, rapists and murderers to run amuck within the city? Okey-dokey you got it.

See, I can hold two conflicting ideas in my head at the same time.

[Rogar]

I'm in the school that this should be a state rights issue and other than the protection of federal building and employees there does appear a legal basis for emplying the national guard. And heavens knows of the implications of using the Marines against US citizens, as has been hinted at.

However, if I have the story right, the protests are against ICE raids to deport people who are in the country illegally? Is that wrong? Even before Trump ICE raids were common. Protesters are brandishing Mexican flags to show solidarity. This isn't Mexico. Of course there are issues around due process.

[LDAHL]

I'm in the school that this should be a state rights issue and other than the protection of federal building and employees there does appear a legal basis for emplying the national guard. And heavens knows of the implications of using the Marines against US citizens, as has been hinted at.

However, if I have the story right, the protests are against ICE raids to deport people who are in the country illegally? Is that wrong? Even before Trump ICE raids were common. Protesters are brandishing Mexican flags to show solidarity. This isn't Mexico. Of course there are issues around due process.

Back in the fifties Eisenhower federalized the Arkansas National Guard and deployed elements of the 101st Airborne to Little Rock, so there must be some legal precedent. Not that I’m all that crazy about the Feds exercising that option. My understanding was that the Guard in LA was mostly posted around federal facilities. The local authorities seemed to be more interested in striking defiant poses than quelling civil disorder.

I agree with you that rioters waving Mexican, Salvadoran and Palestinian flags was troubling.

[Alan]

That’s because you are one of those white nationalist good ol’ boys?

LOL, well that's not the worst thing you've called me, luckily I'm not easily offended and it won't stop my participation in whatever discussion I find interesting so, try harder?