Here's another good compilation review from Elephant Journal regarding the movement as it is coalescing. There is video of veterans and why they are involved; there is the SNL skit too, and there are several statements by an economist, roosevelt, and a veteran in retirement. There's also a link off to ele-journal's "round up" of the best of OWS.
A great report on what OWS is about, how it got started, and how people are organizing it. . . on Democracy Now. (from sept 19, 2011)
this also speaks to debt cancellation as well -- how it's existed in the past, why, and how it is economically beneficial.
Last edited by Zoebird; 10-11-11 at 5:27pm.
Hmmm. Lot's of ranting, no solutions. Actually, not even a clear statement of the problem.Originally Posted by Zoebird
You can't be serious. If you are, please loan me some money today!
You obviously haven't watched it. There's a long history of debt cancellation, and if you are completely ignorant about it, that's what the bank bailout WAS. so, if banks can do it, and governments can do it between each other, why not for the poor? And, it's been done in the past, so why not now? This was in the Democracy Now piece -- which apparently you didn't watch.
And right now, solutions aren't really the situation. It's coming together and identifying and speaking about the problem. Solutions -- real solutions -- will arise in due time. That's the way it works. This is also described in the Democracy Now piece.
People are coming together and talking. They are going to general assembly meetings, and talking about possible solutions.
The other thing that everyone in the movement is acknowledging is that we are all different. We have different opinions about HOW it should be done, what the solution will be. So, we are trying to figure that out together -- without saying this has to be the one solution, or that has to be the one solution.
It's part of the point. It's now about political parties, or who is right, or even HOW to do things.
But, hey, if you aren't angry about the current situation, or if you think everything is fine, then feel free.
And FWIW, i do "loan" people money all the time. And between us, we can cancel debt, renegotiate that debt, or pay it back or what have you. I often forgive debts of others, don't you? And if I can't, then I'll do what I can to work with them and make it happen for/with them.
This is what governments do, this is what corporations do, and this is what the bail out did for bank debts!
But for some reason, it's not possible for corporations and government to forgive the debts of the poor? it's only allowed if the government or rich banks do it between each other, or if government and banks do it?
Can you explain that? It seems nonsensical. The bank bailout was an injection of capital to allow banks to stay solvent and pay their debts.
I live simply. I borrowed money, paid it back, and now try to save and invest. Any debt forgiveness would have to come at my expense as a shareholder or depositor in a bank. People who borrowed the money should pay it back.
I also live simply, and i am paying back whatever I have borrowed. That being said, I have the income to do so, and for those who do not, and do nt have the ability to file for bankruptcy over them (eg, student loans).
If you look up some research on what TARP does with liquid assets that have no fixed value, and how they value them and buy/sell them back to banks (or not, as they simply, eventually, disappear if they are not purchased, or devalue out of existence), then you discover that it was, in fact, a form of debt forgiveness.
Debt forgiveness happens all the time without economic collapse -- when it happens between governments and banks. It's not just the debt itself (the easiest transaction you describe), but what they do with debt that matters. THAT is part of this situation, as debt is a "liquid asset" that doesn't have a defined value once it's been used as collateral itself.
So, i recommend doing some research on it.
An "injection of capital" is just free money by another name. Why should any business be bailed out for making bad business decisions? In banking, that's what bad loans are. When a business makes bad decisions, it gets restructured. Usually the equity is wiped out, the executives are fired and its creditors become the new equity. In the banking sector, there can be restructurings where the good assets are placed in a viable bank and the bad ones in a "bad bank". There are markets for each.
Sweden had no problem restructuring its banks in the early 1990s after its real estate bubble. Japan had the same problem and tried to bury it. Sweden had some quick pain and recovered. Japan still has essentially the same problem two decades later.
This time is NOT different. The world would not end if the banks were restructured and their bad debts written off. This is the BIG LIE told by Wall Street and the leaders of both our parties; and we all know from J. Goebbels that BIG LIES are easier to put over on a public than small ones. In fact, restructuring the banks and making them recognize their losses, and fail if necessary, is the only way out of this mess. No amount of stimulus, tax cuts or any other government action will have any chance of working until this is done. Just ask Japan -- they already tried all this stuff.
OWS has gone to the right place -- bypass the government, and go after the people who control the government.
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