Well, a friend of Zimmerman's says the person calling for help was him, but witnesses who actually heard the cries said it sounded like a young boy and ceased abruptly after the shot was fired. I am sure that is a question that can be answered forensically.
And if I am not mistaken, it was a chilly, rainy night, and it does not take much chill for a person who lives in Miami to feel cold and want to be bundled up.
Okay, lets wait for the facts.
That is probably best, for sure. Because all any of us are doing at this point is just spinning our wheels.
Ah, but isn't that the question? If he indeed attacked GZ, is it your position attacking someone who verbally confronts you is not wrong?Originally Posted by loosechickens
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nat...,7640147.story
Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police.
Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.
Zimmerman began yelling for help.
Several witnesses heard those cries, and there has been a dispute about whether they came from Zimmerman or Trayvon.
Lawyers for Trayvon's family say it was Trayvon, but police say their evidence indicates it was Zimmerman.
One witness, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him — and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.
Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest at very close range, according to authorities.
When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, had a swollen lip and had bloody lacerations to the back of his head.
You stretch this too far. TM's dress may have provoked the moral equivalent of an unwanted catcall or proposition, but you have to wait and see what provoked the physical contact. Catcalls at a girl in a short skirt are impolite, but don't justify someone beating the whistler's head into the sidewalk.The idea that because he was wearing a hoodie, which HUGE numbers of people wear, means that somehow he DESERVED to be confronted, is as ridiculous as any teenaged girl in a short skirt or revealing blouse deserves to be a target of a
rapist.
You are confusing stand your ground with the castle doctrine. SYG is meant to apply outside the home, and you have to consider that 776.041 may very well cover this anyway, in which case there is no misuse.And it SHOULD upset gun rights advocates....because a clearer example of misuse of the intent of the "stand your ground" law could hardly be found. That law is intended to help out someone who is confronted in the middle of the night by an intruder in their home and fears for their life, not a wannabe cop, on his self appointed rounds, going out of his way to confront someone, who ends up dead.
I wouldn't make this about the victim's character. We all agree you should be able to walk down the street without harassment, even if you were suspended from school for drug possession. As for him having the right to be doing what he was doing, we really need to wait until the facts settle out, because what some witness versions have TM doing is attacking GZ and pounding his head into the sidewalk while GZ was crying for help and then going for GZ's gun. I'm not saying that's right, but until we know the facts the most we can say is GZ was morally wrong to harass people and that lead to tragic results. Whether it is criminal or not isn't really clear yet.because this young man was NOT a criminal, not a juvenile delinquent, had never
been in trouble with the law,
Last edited by Yossarian; 3-26-12 at 9:34pm.
This story angers me so much I can certainly understand the Black Panthers demands. Just horrible what happened to Trayvon.
From what I read, he was talking to his girlfriend right before this all went down. It does seem that Zimmerman was just picking on him and he was just trying to run home and out of the rain. So sad and I for one am waiting for justice to be served.
How appalling.
I think they will probably, now that the incident is actually being investigated, instead of the shooter's story simply being accepted by the police and allowed to walk away without undergoing tests for drugs or alcohol, his gun not even being confiscated as evidence at the scene, and the clothes, etc., he was wearing not even being taken as evidence, etc., lots of those questions may well be able to be answered.
the phone records will show exactly when he was talking on his cell phone to the young lady friend, and the exact time of the gunshot can also be ascertained from the 911 tapes, so how much time was available for either him talking on the phone and being jumped by Zimmerman, at which point the call was abruptly ended, or for him to end the call and decided to confront Zimmerman, and how long that confrontation lasted, or if Zimmerman jumped him and he then tried to defend himself before the nearly 100 pounds heavier Zimmerman ended the confrontation by shooting him.......that time frame will show a lot.
But as has been said, despite the fact that George Zimmerman is not likely to be the most reliable of witnesses, and it's likely that his story would put himself in the best possible light, and unfortunately the other party is DEAD, we may never know. And unless and until we do, what is the point of trying the case here? We simply do not know the answers.
Two people met, one was unarmed, one had a 9mm gun, and only one survived. That's really all we know. That the one with the gun was the one that walked away and the one that was unarmed and walking home from a store died. End of story? Maybe, unless you find yourself wondering what gave George Zimmerman, who was not even on his self appointed rounds as a neighborhood watch cop wannabe, but was on his way home from the store himself, found it necessary to confront this young man. Once you ask yourself that kind of question, a whole rats nest opens up as to why that young man was even targeted as suspicious, not to mention the fact that often folks have a lot of bravado, as long as they are the one with the gun. So perhaps much more willing to confront than they might have been otherwise. It seems certain that Trayvon didn't see George Zimmerman and call the cops on HIS cell phone to report a suspicious character. Nope, he seemed to be afraid of this unknown man who was following him. Wouldn't you have been? even if you didn't know the guy had a gun he was more than willing to use?
I don't even pretend to know all the answers, but until I do, you'll forgive me if I have a bit more sympathy for an unarmed teenager walking home from the store than I do for the guy who had a long record of calling the cops about "suspicious people", mostly who were of color, since apparently others didn't seem suspicious to him, who was armed, and who was willing to shoot that unarmed person and kill him. And who followed the kid, even after the police dispatcher said not to....it's easy to be the big brave cop wannabe when you've got the firepower and your on your way to confront an unarmed teenager. Although in George Zimmerman's fevered mind, who seems to see lots of stuff suspicious and is pretty paranoid about some folks, I'm sure he thought he was doing the right thing. that's the problem with having preconceived ideas about situations. It colors your actions, and it seems to have colored Mr. Zimmerman's. By what we know as yet.
Let's HOPE that we can find out the truth. So much evidence was damaged, lost or ignored, we may never know, because the Sanford Police department was at best incompetent, and at worst complicit in this mess, as they have been in other situations with people of color, homeless people, etc. in the past. I've spent some time in Sanford FL. It might as well be Mississippi. .
Last edited by loosechickens; 3-26-12 at 9:44pm.
That is just not true. There is solid witness testimony that TM was on GW beating him. There may be legitimate questions as to what got them there, but there is evidence concerning the circumstances of the shooting itself and GZ's story is backed by some witnesses and physical evidence. There may be more to the story, but let the investigation sort it out.
This is a tragedy for sure, but let's not forget that Zimmerman was beaten with obvious injuries from this young man. They found Zimmerman injured and bloody. There are witnesses that saw it happen. That is why they ruled it self defense. I really think people need to hear all of the facts before they hang this man....
And I think Black people need to have an uprising in outrage for all the Black on Black killings like they have the Trayvon Martin case. Every night on the news here in Kansas City there is yet another murder being reported of another Black on Black killing. Why do they keep killing each other like this? I don't understand.... Rarely if ever is it Whites, Hispanics, Native Americans, Asians, etc. just Black on Black. It is sad...
Before anyone calls me racist - I have many Black friends. A Black doctor performed surgery on me just last week. I, myself am Native American. I have Hispanic and Black neighbors. I have an adopted Asian grandson. Please don't call me racist. And I don't believe CathyA is racist either. She is just brave enough to confront this topic...
Loosechickens, should they try Zimmerman before they convict him, or is it too late?
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein
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