Here's where the gun debate should go!

[Rogar]

Good question Creaker. I think I got my figure from a Bloomberg talk right after the Aurora incident. Knowing how politicians play with numbers, I did a quick check. According to the CDC there were 11,400 homicides by firearms in the US in 2008. Not sure about drunk drivers, but would imagine they are more random, which would raise your odds of being affected by a drunk driver over a gun toter, unless your are maybe involved with shady characters with guns.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

[peggy]

It is unfortunate that every time a "discussion" on this subject occurs, Mrs-M and a handful of quite predictable others engage in insulting characterization of others and uninformed fear-based blathering.

Now now, just because you were called on your attempt at advancing the NRA agenda of 'gun owners as victims of discrimination' doesn't mean you should get your whitey tidys in a twist.
It is unfortunate that whenever anyone tries to start a discussion on this subject, the usual characters come swaggering out of the shadows, guns blazing...so to speak. Too bad it is only the Internet cause it's so much harder to make your point by debate alone. Cause, you know, people who make a habit of walking around armed usually find that folks generally agree with them, don't they.

[bae]

You are insulting and dishonest, Peggy. I pity you.

[Rogar]

Well...one thing about the recent increase in gun sales. As the Onion would say, "It's good to see consumers out spending again."

I think it's time for me to bow out of this one.

[creaker]

Good question Creaker. I think I got my figure from a Bloomberg talk right after the Aurora incident. Knowing how politicians play with numbers, I did a quick check. According to the CDC there were 11,400 homicides by firearms in the US in 2008. Not sure about drunk drivers, but would imagine they are more random, which would raise your odds of being affected by a drunk driver over a gun toter, unless your are maybe involved with shady characters with guns.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

I got a stat from USA today for 11,773 fatalities from drunk driving in 2008. But I would think that probably includes the drunk drivers who died in their own mishap, while the homicide number would not include suicides.

But maybe close enough to call it 50-50, even odds for one or the other?

[lizii]

Clap, clap, clap!

I really hope you are not "clap, clap, clapping" about the Aurura shooter.

[peggy]

You are insulting and dishonest, Peggy. I pity you.

And you can only insult when you have nothing else to bring to a debate.
Shame on you.

[creaker]

Moderator on vacation? It's not feeling very moderate in here.

[CathyA]

East is east and West is west............
There's never going to be any resolution to this issue, when there are some who aren't willing to compromise at all. Seems like the gun owners aren't into compromise.
I agree Creaker..........its time to shut this puppy down.

[Gregg]

I've thought a little lately about WHY I have a gun in the house at all. I shoot sporting clays with a group of friends a couple times a year and I really have fun doing that. I go out target shooting once or twice a year and enjoy that. Both are, to different degrees, precision activities. I like the challenge of that. It's basically the same reason I play golf, which I enjoy more than shooting. Other than those few occasions the guns only come out for a regular clean and oil. I like to look at the burled grain of the wood, the way it fits so precisely with the metal and I appreciate the skill with which the scroll work was carved into that metal. Aside from that they sit in their cabinet, locked up and static.

The 2nd amendment primarily gives citizens the right to bear arms against the government if it gets out of hand. IMO it is out of hand right now, but I choose other methods of playing David to their Goliath. They have me too far....out gunned to mount an armed protest. Even so, keeping a gun is in part a symbolic gesture in line with the spirit of that amendment.

If home defense is the issue there are golf clubs, a baseball bat, several sharp kitchen knives and a host of other potential weapons in between my bed and my guns. I have had reasonable training and am in decent shape and know my house far better than any stranger fumbling in the dark does. Even if they have a gun, the odds that I would be able to get the drop on one or two people are acceptable. And there is no doubt that I could inflict just as much damage with a 3 iron or a 10" chef's knife as I could with a 9 mm. That, by the way, is the singular reason that an argument imposing severe limits on legally purchased guns doesn't make much sense to me. But I digress...

That's about it. From a purely practical standpoint it would make sense to sell them all and use the money for something we would get use or joy from on a more regular basis. The only one that I have any emotional attachment to is my Dad's shotgun that he carried when I was young and we hunted together. I'm sentimental enough that I would like to keep that. We're stable enough that money from the sale of the others wouldn't really mean much one way or the other, so I keep them.

Most of my friends who own guns, which is to say pretty much all of my friends, are in about the same mindset. Some hunt more, a few are more concerned with defense, some haven't pulled their guns out of the closet in years, but the degrees of difference between us aren't great. No real point is saying all this except to try to give a little clearer picture of what I think the average, legal gun owner is like. Not a wannabe Rambo or a closet Ted Kaczynski. More importantly, not a gang banger or anyone with criminal intent. Those are the gun owners who cause problems and we want to get the guns out of their hands as much as anyone does. Maybe we should focus on the real problem and see what the world looks like when that gets fixed.