Here's where the gun debate should go!

[Mrs-M]

Originally posted by Bae.
Normal law-abiding citizens in America who lawfully carry concealed weapons have not been the cause of the streets running red with blood of innocents

Maybe not, but it sets a precedence for wannabees, wannabees who might not otherwise be interested in a gun, suddenly they see a man or woman walk by them on the street and think, "cool, I want to be just like them". It's poor policy (plain and simple), and it has no place in modern day society.

[Mrs-M]

Originally posted by Bae.
By the way, I am curious Mrs-M - how you propose a law-abiding citizen respond to an attacker when they have reasonable belief that the attacker is going to kill them or grievously harm them? Call 911 on their cell phone, and wait for the police to arrive to mop up the blood and write a report? Lie back and enjoy the rape, so you don't harm the self-esteem of the attacker? Allow your child to be kidnapped, so as not to upset the quiet of your suburban neighborhood by resisting?

What a shameful way to view the rigors of daily life, and to think there are parents out there who are raising their children to mirror the same. "Raised to kill". Doesn't say a lot Re: the integrity of society to move forward in hopes of a safer, more well-adjusted world.

[bae]

Maybe not, but it sets a precedence for wannabees, wannabees who might not otherwise be interested in a gun, suddenly they see a man or woman walk by them on the street and think, "cool, I want to be just like them". It's poor policy (plain and simple), and it has no place in modern day society.

Now you aren't making any sense at all.

How can "a wannabee" suddenly see a woman walk by them on the street, carrying a *concealed* weapon, and decide "you know, I can't see that *concealed* weapon, that makes me think, hmmm, maybe I should carry a *concealed* weapon too, so I can be as cool as that lady whose gun I can't even see..."

Concealed means concealed.

At this point, you are throwing out your fears, without any factual basis for your concerns, or cost-benefit analysis of your knee-jerk "sensible" remedies. I understand that you have fears, but often the best way to address such things is through education, and not by insulting other people and proposing to restrict their rights and activities.

[Gregg]

But it seems facts aren't the issue here, Gregg....

They can be inconvenient.

[peggy]

At the age of 20, you can get married, sign a contract, purchase a truck, drive on the public roads, join the military, have children, consent to surgery, and quite a few other things.

By Federal law, however, you cannot purchase a handgun until you are 21. And most states require you to be 21 to carry a concealed weapon. Some states have lower, I think a few have (or had) higher age limits.

So the "20 year old" argument is reflective of a lack of knowledge of the reality here in the United States, and is a red herring.

Were we only talking about handguns? I don't think so. Gregg was talking about shotguns and Mrs. M was talking about all guns. Guns, covers all guns. Talk about a red herring!

[bae]

What a shameful way to view the rigors of daily life, and to think there are parents out there who are raising their children to mirror the same. "Raised to kill". Doesn't say a lot Re: the integrity to move forward in hopes of a safer, more well-adjusted world.

I will repeat my simple questions then, since you didn't respond at all, but deflected by insult and character assassination:

How you propose a law-abiding citizen respond to an attacker when they have reasonable belief that the attacker is going to kill them or grievously harm them?

Call 911 on their cell phone, and wait for the police to arrive to mop up the blood and write a report?

Lie back and enjoy the rape, so you don't harm the self-esteem of the attacker?

Allow your child to be kidnapped, so as not to upset the quiet of your suburban neighborhood by resisting?

Sing Kumbaya and hope a wave of brotherly love will sweep across the planet, causing your attacker to break down in tears and change his ways, while you cuddle him to help him through that difficult time?

[bae]

Were we only talking about handguns? I don't think so. Gregg was talking about shotguns and Mrs. M was talking about all guns. Guns, covers all guns. Talk about a red herring!

A dishonest attempt to muddle the waters on your part, Peggy.

Concealed carry licenses in most states cover handguns only, not "all guns". Most states do not allow you to walk around with loaded rifles or shotguns in public spaces, except under some pretty restrictive conditions involving hunting. As a result, most citizens who lawfully carry firearms in public are carrying handguns.

[Mrs-M]

Originally posted by Bae.
What is the magic age, Mrs-M? 22? 30? 50? 65?

I touched on that on page 20, Bae. Unless people are involved with security, special forces, personal protection and police work, allowing people to carry, is a law that will continue to come back and haunt the American people (over and over again). It portrays a lack of stability.

[Mrs-M]

Now you aren't making any sense at all.

How can "a wannabee" suddenly see a woman walk by them on the street, carrying a *concealed* weapon, and decide "you know, I can't see that *concealed* weapon, that makes me think, hmmm, maybe I should carry a *concealed* weapon too, so I can be as cool as that lady whose gun I can't even see..."

Concealed means concealed.

At this point, you are throwing out your fears, without any factual basis for your concerns, or cost-benefit analysis of your knee-jerk "sensible" remedies. I understand that you have fears, but often the best way to address such things is through education, and not by insulting other people and proposing to restrict their rights and activities.

Are there States, where people can carry (out in the open)? If so, that is what I am referring to.

[Gregg]

What a shameful way to view the rigors of daily life, and to think there are parents out there who are raising their children to mirror the same. "Raised to kill". Doesn't say a lot Re: the integrity of society to move forward in hopes of a safer, more well-adjusted world.

I raised my kids to, first) be aware and avoid trouble, and second) know how to get away if you get caught in it, and third) know how to defend yourself if need be. You may consider that shameful, I consider it my obligation. They are some of the most well adjusted people I know and some of the least likely to be involved in a violent situation because they know violence is only acceptable when other options have been exhausted.