Mitt's taxes part 2

[Alan]

I was using "call off the dogs" as a figure of speech (clumsily). People are free to believe whatever they wish, but I think Republican leadership has been remiss in killing the birther meme. The mouths on Faux News and right-wing talk radio and Drudge are promoting a lie. The Speaker of the House and other elements of Republican leadership could tell them to knock it off in public. But they don't.

And, the President could tell Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi and his super PACS to knock it off as well, but hasn't, and won't.

The reason being is that politics is a smarmy business, engaged in by smarmy people who will do and say anything to achieve a goal. And you know why? Because people believe everything they hear that validates their own prejudices. That's why we have multiple threads about Romney's taxes.

You can pick and choose which ones you find offensive and which ones get a pass, but in reality, they're all just wrong.

[peggy]

So, why did Romney demand several years of tax returns for Ryan? Why was that important? If something was amiss, wouldn't that have 'leaked'?

so, all you supposedly savvy business people would invest everything, essentially, in a business without even the slightest inquiry into their financial health/tract record? Really? Don't you think something would have 'leaked' if it was not sound? Come on, tell me you would invest everything without looking at many years financial reports.
What kind of business person would do that? Not a very good one.

This is a business proposition, as Romney himself keeps trying to tell us. "Elect me because I'm such a savvy business person" OK, prove it, and give us the opportunity to make a sound business decision.
It's protocol, it's traditional, I didn't just make this up, even thought some of you would try to make this some vendetta I have invented. Trying to make it a 'rich' thing is bogus as well. First of all, we know he is rich. Duh! No surprise there. Second of all, he isn't the first rich guy to run for office. He may think he is special but he's not.
Of course the pols would go over his returns, just like you know he went over his opponents with several fine toothed combs. He probably had an army going over everyone's including Obama's and now Ryan's. And how did that happen? Because they had NOTHING TO HIDE and they released their taxes.

This man has said that on DAY ONE he is going to give himself a huge gift of tax breaks. And yet, we can only assume he has paid no taxes. Why are we giving him a tax break again? Why are we giving him and his rich buddies a tax break again? I really really want to know. Please someone tell me why the super wealthy need a tax break, or even a continuation of the Bush tax breaks. You can't have it both ways.
It is reasonable for me to want this guy, who expects the credit card and the keys to the car, to prove to me that he deserves a huge tax break. And until he signs a pledge saying he will not pursue a tax break for himself and his buddies, and stop the Bush tax breaks, I will keep insisting on seeing why not.

This is not a minor issue, even though some would try to make it so. I did not get where I am today by making poor business decisions.

Gregg, do you invest in a company, a huge investment, without thorough investigation of the financial records?
Do you Alan?
Does any smart business person?

[Gregg]

Gregg, do you invest in a company, a huge investment, without thorough investigation of the financial records?

No peggy, I don't. But then I did agree with you early on by saying I think Mr. Romney should release his taxes. Why the GOP movers and shakers wanted him to hold back is something I can't tell you: I just don't know. I do not have any reason to believe Romney did anything illegal. Swiss and Cayman accounts may sound like the stuff of a Grisham novel to some, but its not illegal or unethical or all that uncommon to use those kinds of accounts.

Full disclosure early on is almost always the best policy. I'm disappointed that is not the choice that was made and think that now Mr. Romney & his campaign are now between a rock and a hard place. Speaking practically, unless some outright fraud was revealed (which I do think is highly unlikely), there just isn't going to be much in the man's tax return that would cause me to change my vote. Like the rest of us, he's not perfect and like any other, he's not a perfect candidate. Either Romney or Obama is going to be our next president and both come with baggage. Regardless of what's in his taxes I think Romney is more likely to lead the US in a direction that will ultimately be better for this country. That is why I will probably vote for him, not because I think he's a saint. You feel differently. Not sure what else to say that might make you feel better?

[peggy]

Why, Gregg? Why do you think Romney is more likely to lead the US in a direction that will benefit us all? Which policy, or position has he that makes you say that?

This whole tax thing shows him to be secretive, and fairly arrogant in that he feels he doesn't need to play by the rules of the game. But then, you said you will vote for him anyway so i guess he is right. He doesn't need to play by the rules of the game. I wonder what other rules he feels he doesn't need to follow? We'll never know cause you, and all the others out there like you, will turn your back and pull that lever without demanding a single thing of him. Or even the truth. Maybe you all can't handle the truth, and that is why you don't really care to know.

You keep saying you don't think he has done anything illegal, but how do you know? How does anyone know? No one who voted for Nixon thought he was a crook either, but he was secretive, and ran on a whole lot of 'Trust me', just like Romney. Romney may be innocent, or as crooked as the day is long, but, until he comes clean, it's like quantum physics. There could be anything, and everything in those returns! I doubt there is nothing, cause if there were he would release them.
So, again I say, what's he hiding, cause he's hiding something! Yeah, maybe hiding your cash in offshore accounts isn't exactly illegal, but it sure is scummy for someone who wants to be President! And greedy! How greedy do you have to be to not tidy up that little aspect knowing you would run for President! (and he has known for at least 10 years) Greed and Arrogance! Wow! Is this all the Republican party stands for anymore?
Watch Faux News for even a little bit and you will hear "elite" said with a sneer at least 10 times an hour in reference to liberals. Well folks, you are trying to elect the king of elite. Doesn't get anymore Elite than Romney.

With this tax thing, I can only come to two conclusions. Either he is hiding something, maybe even something illegal, or he is an incredible coward, or maybe both.

But, make your case. I'm listening. Tell me what you like about him, specifically. Which policy, which plan of his do you like? Which position of his do you think will take the US in the right direction?

[Gregg]

No one who voted for Nixon thought he was a crook either...

Overall I think it was a lot easier to get away with things in 1968 than it is now. In a world where every move you make leaves a trail of some kind and where there are countless would be sleuths (amateur and professional) out scratching the ground and the Today show will chat with anyone who knew you in 3rd grade, I just don't see how Mitt Romney's past could be that sordid without someone broadcasting it. He's rich, but he ain't rich enough to buy them all off.

But, make your case. I'm listening.

I'm no big Romney fan peggy. Truth is I'm pretty neutral about him, no big high or low. The main reason I will probably vote for him, like I said above, is that I think he has a better shot at leading the US in a direction where we (IMO) need to go. I think we have a better shot at it with a Republican administration than we do by reelecting the President. Money isn't the answer to everything and throwing money at a problem hardly ever works, BUT in terms of the government everything DOES run on money. I believe our spending is out of control and unsustainable. I believe our economy is in very bad shape. There is too much debt, public and private. Until the economy recovers we won't be able to truly fix anything else, but I don't believe Mr. Obama feels that way. To be sure the President has had a hard row to hoe in the last 3.5 years and the stagnation in Congress is not all his fault, but I have simply not seen the kind of leadership from him that I had hoped for. I never hoped for him to fail because that means we all failed, but he has not succeeded with what I hoped he would so I plan to vote for someone who will take a different approach. We talk about the lesser of the evils. Unfortunately for me that is exactly what this election is about. I probably didn't help my chances to land a job on the campaign with that one, huh?

[bae]

I can understand Democrats leaping to the conclusion that there must be tax cheating going on, when they nominate and support people like Timother Geithner, tax cheat, for Secretary of the Treasury. People often suspect others of engaging in the same sort of immoral activity they themselves are engaged in, or drawn to...

[peggy]

"Tax experts blame Geithner’s error on the IMF’s atypical tax arrangement. Because it’s an international organization, it’s exempt from withholding employees’ payroll taxes.
U.S. employees get additional salary to cover the IMF’s share of their payroll taxes. They’re responsible for paying the tax, considered a “self-employment tax,” as part of their personal tax returns.
Geithner did his own taxes in 2001 and 2002. An accountant did them in 2003 and 2004.
“Usually, all this stuff is taken out of your paycheck, so this particular arrangement is unusual,” said George Yin, a tax professor at the University of Virginia Law School and former chief of staff for the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation. “It would be much more troubling if he didn't understand some basic principle of economics.”

Hardly an out and out cheat. Inattentive, maybe, but not trying to hide something, like Romney. And anyway, Obama released many years tax returns. Geithner isn't running for President, Romney is.
Secretive, arrogant, greedy... your kind of guy, I'm sure.

You know, Paul Ryans tax plan eliminates taxes for capitol gains. Eliminates them, completely! And of course, Romney said if Ryans plan were to cross his Presidential desk tomorrow, he would sign it. Wow! Could he give himself a bigger gift? Nope. Sure is a sweet trade off for pretending you care about the country for 4 years, although he doesn't even really need to pretend, does he. You will vote for him anyway! Ahh..but you are one of those benefiting from that giant suck from the middle class to the wealthy. We all sleep better at night knowing you can spend an extra 5,000 on ammo for target practice each month. He has that R (well, more like an etch-a-sketch R) on his butt. Good enough!

I guess I can see how republicans could care less if this guy has cheated on his taxes, as their focus is on the dismantling of America, raping and plundering what they can of what's left. They can't wait to continue the redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy, and they are so close with the election of one of their own, they can taste it. With Paul Ryans budget, and Mitt's lack of caring (he just wants the title) it's a done deal.

The real sad characters in this little drama are all the tea partiers who actually thought they were a part of something big, and something good. They were used, completely, and the brains of the republican party (sadly only the leaders cause they scorn education for anyone else) could give a rip about them, using their ignorance knowing they will do whatever they are told, believing whatever they are told, carrying signs that say whatever they are told.
http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesau...hose-programs/

I have faith in the vast middle who will not let this scam go on. Even the tea partiers will eventually see that this empty suit, who is the elite of the elite, who so despises and holds nothing but contempt for them that he lets them know he expects them to vote for him despite the contempt he holds for their intellect in choosing a President.

I'm pretty sure even you , bae, wouldn't invest such a vast amount with such importance in a company without spending a lot of time investigating past performance and financial records, and more than 1 year I'll wager. How little you must think of your fellow tea partiers to feel they don't deserve this important information. But then, one does not need to analyze a tool. One only needs it to work.

[bae]

Secretive, arrogant, greedy... your kind of guy, I'm sure.

Lonely silence,
a single cicada's cry
sinking into stone

[JaneV2.0]

I can understand Democrats leaping to the conclusion that there must be tax cheating going on, when they nominate and support people like Timother Geithner, tax cheat, for Secretary of the Treasury. People often suspect others of engaging in the same sort of immoral activity they themselves are engaged in, or drawn to...

If I suspect Mitt Romney of obfuscation around possibly unethical behavior, I must therefore be a lying captain of industry myself? If I were the kind of person to jump up and down like Rumpelstiltskin and bluster and threaten when I felt offended I'd be a dervish banshee on a pogo stick right about now.

[Gregg]

...I'd be a dervish banshee on a pogo stick right about now.

Funny Jane, what a great image!