Something good from the Trump Years.....

It has taken me quite some time to stand up and deal after the elections. To say that I am scared is very much an underststement. I've done what I could and have two bags packed, access to some running money, and quick access to my passport. I advise others to do the same but this is other people's homework, to see the necessity to do so. I've taken the 85006 pledge to do at least one small legal thing every day to make Trump's time in office more difficult. We are having email and phone drives in the 85006 to kick this off and it's so wonderful to see the 85006 unified against Trump and all he claims to today stand for. But it's dawning on me......the next four years are going to be like the 60's, with constant terror or the government, constant protests, the world at long last truly seeing what America is about (smartphone record everything the next four years, we all share a duty to human rights to expose America to the world at every juicy opportunity during the Trump presidency). There will likely be scattered opportunities for political asylum elsewhere once the human rights abuses multiply and become worse. Smart people will grab them as it is a legal way out for good....no more terror of America and it's future direction necessary. I see some people cashing in on the Trump Years by using them to never set foot here again, and I see many people constantly protesting in a bid to try to preserve basic human rights and basic human dignity against Mr. Trump. I guess let's just get the blankshow started then. At least I will be able to say I experienced something like the 60's......and maybe I'll be one of the lucky ones who is able to use Trump for purposes of political asylum. Remains to be seen. Intetesting times though, no? Rob

There is a push in my community to make sure that transgender citizens get all their papers in order, legal name changes, birth certificates, passports up to date. We have had at least one transgender hate crime in Denver, I am sure more. I truly don't know what will happen, so I hesitate to say it will all be okay in the end since I am not in too much danger.

What sort of human rights abuses do you predict?

I like to think there are still enough reasonable/ethical/kind people in the U.S. that will stand up to Trump's choices. Then again.........I was sure before the election that the high number of those reasonable/ethical/kind people would show up to vote and there would be no way Trump could win. Bummer. I don't plan on leaving. yet. We'll see what the future brings.

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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

...have two bags packed, access to some running money, and quick access to will grab them as it is a legal way out for good....no more terror of America ...

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Still interested to know where and when you are going. Sorry, but making the threat to leave the USA as often as you have done over the years doesnt contribute to your credibility.

Since you have bags packed and cash ready (the easy part) where will you be heading for the rest of your life, how will access those countries long term, how will you support yourself, and what about your mother who youve said keeps you here?

What are the legal things you are doing to make Trump's reign difficult? Besides protesting, I mean, or making phone calls to organize protests? I do not mean those are minor things, I just want to know if there are more imaginative ideas.

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Originally Posted by Alan

What sort of human rights abuses do you predict?

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Right now and starting the day after the election I was getting many reports on my news feeds, girls as young as 10 being grabbed by the crotch, black children physically attacked, brown children (not all hispanic) being told they would be deported, drinking fountains with labels of white and colored in public schools. I know of one attack on a trans-woman in Denver and many of our schools are on high alert but I don't know how many incidents we have had in Denver. They are starting to track this more in general, many schools are stepping up and making statements, suspending and expelling students who are doing these things. I would love that it was not happening and it was as simple as my interests didn't win, that is not holding true

Zoe, heard from a teacher that they can keep the children safe in school but there are incidents outside of school. Bullying is increasing. I think the kids are modeling their parents.

And yes, I think America is walking backwards to a very bad period in our history. Some have truly forgotten or never learned about our fairly recent history.

All I can say is stand up for the oppressed. If you see it happening, stand up and get involved.

The classroom teachers are working hard, but we have never had this to deal with before so there is no playbook. I teach mindfulness in 2 classrooms. The 2nd grade classroom had a couple kids come in excited about Trump, and then other kids reacted. The class is already very challenging. The lesson I did with them, and that was even more effective in the 5th grade room, was to talk about stress briefly. Have them give me a sign of their stress level with their thumb. Thumb straight up was stressed every day, to the side was 2 times a week and down was not stressed at all. Then I had them look around at their classmates stress levels. We did 3 minutes of mindfulness sitting and then talked about how we can help our crew (that is what they call their classrooms) when we see someone who had a thumb all the way up. We also talked about who they could go to in our building, teachers, counselors, etc. if their stress was way too high to manage. I cannot ignore what is happening and do a lesson that does not relate to them right now, in fact at the end of the 5th grade lesson I cried. I saw the whole room soften and relate to me and each other. I wasn't the only one with tears.

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Originally Posted by Zoe Girl

The classroom teachers are working hard, but we have never had this to deal with before so there is no playbook. I teach mindfulness in 2 classrooms. The 2nd grade classroom had a couple kids come in excited about Trump, and then other kids reacted. The class is already very challenging. The lesson I did with them, and that was even more effective in the 5th grade room, was to talk about stress briefly. Have them give me a sign of their stress level with their thumb. Thumb straight up was stressed every day, to the side was 2 times a week and down was not stressed at all. Then I had them look around at their classmates stress levels. We did 3 minutes of mindfulness sitting and then talked about how we can help our crew (that is what they call their classrooms) when we see someone who had a thumb all the way up. We also talked about who they could go to in our building, teachers, counselors, etc. if their stress was way too high to manage. I cannot ignore what is happening and do a lesson that does not relate to them right now, in fact at the end of the 5th grade lesson I cried. I saw the whole room soften and relate to me and each other. I wasn't the only one with tears.

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how did you relate to the two kids who were "excited about Trump?" Were they allowed to express happiness throughout the session?

What does "stress way too high to manage?" mean, exactly? If it cant be "managed" what is the next step?

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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

At least I will be able to say I experienced something like the 60's.....

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I think they used paragraphs back in the 60's. So that's something.

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Originally Posted by sweetana3

I think the kids are modeling their parents.

If you see it happening, stand up and get involved.

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That first quoted sentence, seems to fit parents as well as Trump. Do as I say, not as I do.
Then again, I expect it fits most of Congress, as they are exempt from their laws in so many cases.
The later part, isn't that something that hasn't ever changed? I thought the founding fathers even believed that, as they gave us the right of free speech, freedom of assembly, etc.
Shocked that many believe this is new.

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Originally Posted by Zoe Girl

Right now and starting the day after the election I was getting many reports on my news feeds,...

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My "news feeds" have been full of all sorts of outrageous tales from both "sides". Often when I did, I find no substantiation, or outright fabrication. I'm curious what the before/after incident rate really looks like, and what's really going on...

- Is there just increased reporting of valid incidents, and this has been going on all along?
- Has the rate gone up/down/sideways?
- Are the incidents what they really seem? Are they actually associated with the "side" or "-ism" they appear to be?


Have any of you personally witnessed anything untoward? I've seen very little out here, but our community is the most liberal one in the state - Trump only got ~25% of the vote here. I was verbally assaulted in our local pub right after the election, seemingly for simply being male, white, privileged, and not-a-Hillary-voter. It nearly became physical assault, but the young lady who was coming after me was too inebriated to carry out her intent, as the height of the bar stool was incompatible with her motion.

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Originally Posted by bae

My "news feeds" have been full of all sorts of outrageous tales from both "sides". Often when I did, I find no substantiation, or outright fabrication. I'm curious what the before/after incident rate really looks like, and what's really going on...

- Is there just increased reporting of valid incidents, and this has been going on all along?
- Has the rate gone up/down/sideways?
- Are the incidents what they really seem? Are they actually associated with the "side" or "-ism" they appear to be?


Have any of you personally witnessed anything untoward? I've seen very little out here, but our community is the most liberal one in the state - Trump only got ~25% of the vote here. I was verbally assaulted in our local pub right after the election, seemingly for simply being male, white, privileged, and not-a-Hillary-voter. It nearly became physical assault, but the young lady who was coming after me was too inebriated to carry out her intent, as the height of the bar stool was incompatible with her motion.

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This might have been totally unrelated to Trump, but I recently was in line at my local grocery-of-choice when the man behind me started ranting loudly about the slowness of the checker--"a 'retard' could do it faster than that!" He went on about the quality of the employees, on and on.

I apologized, tongue in cheek, for having a huge order, and noted "But still you shop here." The manager, who was checking us out, told her staff to watch for him and call security if he came in and started harassing her staff again.

I've never experienced such sustained, overt rudeness at a local business, and I'm convinced that Trump's boorishness has given a license to all his fellow boors, bullies, and haters to act out accordingly. I could be wrong,

I think it is a bad thing if boobs from our lower echelons of society take the Trump victory as a signal to act with barbarism and boobery by bullying fellow students. There is no doubt in my mind that some boobs ARE doing that, some, as in "a few".
Bullys need no special inspiration, they grab whatever idea is in front of them at the moment to use as justification to badger somene else.

I dont buy in whole the idea that there is a sudden increase in bullying and that is due to Donald Trump. These are perceptions, and biased perceptions at that, from a largely female population of professionals in education who do not like Trump.

What I've learned about living in a zip code that has one of the highest murder rates in the world is this: perception is reality when it comes to fear. Perception that bullying has increased is the same as "bullyinghas increased" in the human arena and all measures showing otherwise wont matter, people are gonna believe what they believe.

Sround here we work to reduce crime as well as the perception of crime because an ordinary measure of crime tells only part of the story. It doesnt make the average Moe feel safer if he is the one who was last week's victim even though overall crime stats may be down. Keeping street lights lit, encouraging neighbors to install outdoor lighting, organizing citizen patrons, workong with police to,get more coverage--these are a few of the actins we take. Do,they really make a difference? Wjo know, but proactive work is good for the mental health of people who,famcy themselves victims.

My own neighborhood has seen an 11% rise in crime over last year and a particularly annoying spat of recent small crimes from a trio of boys from the Projects. I do not ascribe their thievery to being mad about Trump's campaign and election, I just thnk they are mini-thugs doing what thugs-in-training do.

I think it's high time we come down hard on people who do bad things. They're given too many chances and then make others think they can do bad stuff and get away with it. I'm not liberal at all in this regard. Would we be so tolerant of cancer in our bodies? These people are cancers to our society and we do very little about it. That is contributing to our problems in the U.S. today too.......among a few hundred other things......
Maybe if we drained the prison swamp, we'd make some progress. Yes, I believe in capital punishment.

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

how did you relate to the two kids who were "excited about Trump?" Were they allowed to express happiness throughout the session?

What does "stress way too high to manage?" mean, exactly? If it cant be "managed" what is the next step?

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The kids have been very vocal for about a year and a half on both sides, a lot of kids wanted to say things about Trump throughout the last year. We do not let them name either candidate, and my relationship has not changed with them or the parents because I know how they voted. I have spent a lot more time with parents who are struggling however. I have spent the last 6 years in this job working on having my afterschool activities reflect the community around race, income and language. The first 2 years was spent working on having more kids and families of color involved, even working with staff to have staff that reflect our community, and as a result I have some very strong relationships. I intentionally work with families that are struggling with behavior and learning issues, making sure we have an afterschool program that can meet their needs, some of them did vote for Trump. They get as much protection and support from me as anyone else. Right now the parents who are sharing with me are reporting racially based effects. So this is not a newsfeed from across the country for me. I also feel like sharing too much details just keeps looping around, arguments about how they shouldn't feel that way or need to prove they are at risk,

As far as too high to manage we have a variety of ways to work with that. In previous years I have had a couple families in distress, kids would shut down, refuse to speak, run from program. It was a longer project including just sitting with them physically, offering art materials, communicating with teachers and social services, creating behavior plans, and sometimes just feeding them more.

I haven't witnessed anything different but have heard a few reports from friends of of anglo arrogance that surfaced after the election. Simple things like, speak English, this is America.

Per the OP, I don't think there is really anything a person can do right now to make Trump's time of office more difficult. I only see a time sink to vent frustrations. I do see some comparisons to the 60's and suspect the time will come for organized citizen movements to address or disrupt specific issues. Right now the opportunities I see are to be true to one's beliefs and to speak up or act when we see things in our daily routines that are not right. There may be chances to interact with people from the "other side" to get some better understanding, explain a position, or find some common ground.

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Originally Posted by CathyA

I think it's high time we come down hard on people who do bad things. They're given too many chances and then make others think they can do bad stuff and get away with it. I'm not liberal at all in this regard. Would we be so tolerant of cancer in our bodies? These people are cancers to our society and we do very little about it. That is contributing to our problems in the U.S. today too.......among a few hundred other things......
Maybe if we drained the prison swamp, we'd make some progress. Yes, I believe in capital punishment.

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I believe in punishment for serious crimes--in not-for-profit government-run institutions--but I don't support capital punishment, because you can't say "Oops, my bad" if you execute the wrong person. I'm not particularly troubled by some beyond-a-doubt torture slayer getting offed; maybe I should be. But the DP is applied very unequally (the Green River Killer, with dozens of victims, got LWOP) and often with prejudice. We could drain the prison swamps by letting all the low-level drug offenders out, but prisons are big business in this country, so don't look for it to happen any time soon.

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Originally Posted by Rogar

I haven't witnessed anything different but have heard a few reports from friends of of anglo arrogance that surfaced after the election. Simple things like, speak English, this is America.

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I don't find this arrogant! People in the US speak English. It used to be that immigrants who came here learned English and tried to fit in. We should not be put out because people who come here don't choose to learn our language IMHO. Personally, when I travel to other countries I try to learn some of the language just to get around. If I planned on living there you can be sure I would learn the language!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by frugal-one

I don't find this arrogant! People in the US speak English. It used to be that immigrants who came here learned English and tried to fit in. We should not be put out because people who come here don't choose to learn our language IMHO. Personally, when I travel to other countries I try to learn some of the language just to get around. If I planned on living there you can be sure I would learn the language!!!!!!

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Many, many people speak English as a second language (or third, or fourth, etc.), and will fall back on other languages when talking to family, friends, etc. Just because someone is not speaking English doesn't mean they don't. But many people seem to get annoyed anyway when they hear it in public, and seem more concerned about people speaking in other languages in their presence than whether or not they know English.

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Originally Posted by creaker

Many, many people speak English as a second language (or third, or fourth, etc.), and will fall back on other languages when talking to family, friends, etc. Just because someone is not speaking English doesn't mean they don't. But many people seem to get annoyed anyway when they hear it in public, and seem more concerned about people speaking in other languages in their presence than whether or not they know English.

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This is not what I was referring to..... obviously. It is people who do not know how to speak English but live here and do not even try to learn.

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Originally Posted by frugal-one

I don't find this arrogant! People in the US speak English. It used to be that immigrants who came here learned English and tried to fit in.

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I just came back from travel which included a small village in New Mexico where they have been speaking Spanish for the past 400 years, and very little English is spoken. The Anglos are the immigrants. I also spent time with my friends on the Navajo and Pueblo lands - the Pueblo view the Navajos as the immigrants, they both think the Hispanics and Anglos are just a passing fad.

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Originally Posted by frugal-one

This is not what I was referring to..... obviously. It is people who do not know how to speak English but live here and do not even try to learn.

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Like many of the Amish and Old World Orthodox Jews in New York, am I right?

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Originally Posted by JaneV2.0

Like many of the Amish and Old World Orthodox Jews in New York, am I right?

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The Amish are one of the reasons that I, a native-born American, grew up speaking German.

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Originally Posted by bae

The Amish are one of the reasons that I, a native-born American, grew up speaking German.

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Are you saying you grew up around the Amish?

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Originally Posted by CathyA

Are you saying you grew up around the Amish?

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Yup.

I feel that people need to learn English if they want to live here. I don't mind if they speak English, but revert to their native tongue with friends/family. But as has been mentioned, the people who came over in the early part of last century wanted to assimilate. Many people don't want to assimilate, but want to enjoy all the benefits of living here. What's wrong with having a national language? Letting people come here who don't know English is one of those things that some think means we're a fair/opened society. I think accepting too many of those type of things ends up biting us in the butt. DH's grandmother came over from Hungary, as did his relatives. They learned English, and worked their butts off, kept spotless homes, cooked from scratch, and wanted to be Americans. Yes, they had their groups of like-people, and enjoyed speaking their language to them, cooked Hungarian foods, etc., but they didn't expect to have a closed culture here in the U.S. I think that has changed.

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Originally Posted by frugal-one

I don't find this arrogant! People in the US speak English. It used to be that immigrants who came here learned English and tried to fit in. We should not be put out because people who come here don't choose to learn our language IMHO. Personally, when I travel to other countries I try to learn some of the language just to get around. If I planned on living there you can be sure I would learn the language!!!!!!

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On top of what others mention, there are legal immigrants who come here from other countries to harvest crops, work in packing plants, roof our houses in the heat of summer and other work most U.S. citizens would either not do, or only do for a much higher wage and benefits. Many are seasonal workers. Their first or only language isn't important, but probably most of them are trying to learn enough English to get along in society. Last I heard the citizenship test is only printed in English.

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Originally Posted by CathyA

I feel that people need to learn English if they want to live here.

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Warum?

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What's wrong with having a national language?

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Can it be Tewa or Navajo?

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Originally Posted by Rogar

Last I heard the citizenship test is only printed in English.

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Not exactly. https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship...accommodations

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Originally Posted by bae

Warum?



Can it be Tewa or Navajo?

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You're being silly bae. When people don't learn the national language, it makes life more difficult for them, and the people they are trying to talk to......be in the grocery store, the BMV, school, police, etc., etc. And then in the U.S., we start to think we have to adjust our classrooms, commercials, directions, signs, etc., etc. to include that other language. I'm sure many of us, if we moved to another country, would gladly learn the language......or maybe even have known it before moving there. It's just one of those things that would make life move along more smoothly for everyone.

Why do you think they want to talk to you?

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Originally Posted by frugal-one

This is not what I was referring to..... obviously. It is people who do not know how to speak English but live here and do not even try to learn.

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I think that is their choice, although I could not imagine doing that myself - it would make life so difficult. Although the amount of time one is planning on living here would be a consideration. I lived in Italy for a while (military brat) - most military people did not learn the language because of the limited time they were to be there even though it was usually years.

This thread has been done to death. Of course adults who immigrate not speaking the language have a hard time, and may never speak English well. Their descendants will and do. Always. Unless, of course, they're religious isolationists.

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Originally Posted by JaneV2.0

This thread has been done to death. Of course adults who immigrate not speaking the language have a hard time, and may never speak English well. Their descendants will and do. Always. Unless, of course, they're religious isolationists.

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And if the isolationist put up too much fuss about it, you can always take away their children to government boarding schools to crush their language and culture.

Slightly off topic, but since we're talking language... Now that the political majority is somewhere between conservative and alt-right, does that change the definition of being "politically correct"?

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Originally Posted by JaneV2.0

This thread has been done to death. Of course adults who immigrate not speaking the language have a hard time, and may never speak English well. Their descendants will and do. Always. Unless, of course, they're religious isolationists.

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That's the story of my family's life. My great grandmother never learned any English beyond "Wanna cookie?" Otherwise she only ever spoke German. Apparently she felt it necessary to learn enough English to at least carry on important communication with her grandchildren, who only ever spoke English.

I was too young to remember much about the early 60's but my sister was much older and talked about all the riots when she lived in Milwaukee, people getting killed, cops overreacting to the rioters, black panthers, curfews, etc. I never forgot the stories and how horrible it sounded.

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Originally Posted by Rogar

Slightly off topic, but since we're talking language... Now that the political majority is somewhere between conservative and alt-right, does that change the definition of being "politically correct"?

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Politically correct has always meant, at least to me, making an honest attempt to be polite to and respectful of people who are different from oneself. Otherwise known as having decent manners. The people who don't want to be politically correct generally don't seem to want to do either. They'd rather mock their disabilities, call them rapists and murders, make menstruation jokes about them or accuse them of being terrorists because of their religion. The definition of politically correct won't change. But the frequency of when it happens seems to be decreasing. This isn't particularly surprising since the president generally has enough media power to set the tone of conversation in the country and when the president (president elect at this point) is a douchebag a lot of people are likely to feel free to be douchebags themselves. But if any good comes of his election, at least the rest of us will forever know who the douchebags are among us.

Fortunately I don't know one person that voted for him.