Ran across ICE in Phoenix (warning, some of you might want to scroll on by)

Just as I said, I ran across ICE in Phoenix. I was off one day last week and went to Morning Mass at the Catholic Church around the corner from me. ICE was apprehending (is this the right word) two individuals from a red pickup truck in the church parking lot 1/2 hour before Mass. It was utterly terrifying being so up close to fascist criminal such as this but Thank God another person pulled up - a woman with what I would call spunk - who started videoing as I did I instantly when I had another human being to witness these criminals and provide some cover. As the Government Criminals fled the scene I managed to get pics of most license plates of the seven vehicles necessary to detain two individuals.

Some good did take place. The woman who videoed with me is in ICE Watch and I signed up through her to bang pots and pans at any Phoenix area hotel ICE might stay at. The goals is to destroy any chance for these criminals to get any rest.

Something I truly notice and like about myself - being middle class has not changed who I am as a person one iota though I do donate more to charity now and embarrassingly the last time I bought sheets they were new. I still feel icky about that.

Something else wonderful - SO is happy to go bang pots with me though I don't know if this is wise due to his being naturalized and being married to a known dissident. We are seeking counsel from ICE Watch - there are some attorneys involved doing some pro bono work\advice.

Rob

Good for you Rob. Glad you have not lost your mojo!

A couple of questions if you have the time.
#1. Why do you call law enforcement personnel doing their job criminals and fascists?
#2. Do you know anything about these persons they were arresting in the church parking lot, such as immigration status, US criminal record or whether a duly authorized removal order has been previously issued?
#3. What is the purpose of disrupting an entire hotel other than the off chance you may annoy a few ICE officers. Do you have any consideration at all for other guests or the business itself?
#4. What makes you a "known dissident"? (I'm just mildly curious about that one, you can disregard if you can't verify that status)

okay---those fanaticrats don't change my mind one bit with their antics. But yeah---- too bad i'm wayy to old ta get a gummint job, enforcing immagration law and getting a chance ta assault a lunatic fanticrat or three, as collateral damage. Serves 'em right. Soon as w
e acquire Greenland, they(fanaticrats) can be transported to start a new life, clearing off the icecap. Yup. (see photo)Attachment 6718

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Originally Posted by frugal-one

Good for you Rob. Glad you have not lost your mojo!

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Well....

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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

It was utterly terrifying being so up close to fascist criminal such as this but Thank God another person pulled up - a woman with what I would call spunk - who started videoing as I did I instantly when I had another human being to witness these criminals and provide some cover.

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Looks like Rob waited until his mojo drove up to the scene before he whipped out the "fully-charged smartphone" he's been warning us to carry for years now...

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Originally Posted by bae

Well....



Looks like Rob waited until his mojo drove up to the scene before he whipped out the "fully-charged smartphone" he's been warning us to carry for years now...

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You are not entirely wrong, Bae. One unfortunate thing about not living on the economic edge is that extremely ironically I've become much more cautious. Does this mean I've sold out? Rob

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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

You are not entirely wrong, Bae. One unfortunate thing about not living on the economic edge is that extremely ironically I've become much more cautious. Does this mean I've sold out? Rob

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One line of thinking holds that as your privilege increases, you should become more fearless in speaking out to help out those less fortunate. YMMV

I appreciate the efforts anyone takes to speak out or demonstrate against ICE. Their tactics are not acceptable, and the public outcry actually seems to be making a difference.

At what point does stalking and harassing ICE agents in a hotel become illegal? I think ICE needs to be held accountable for their actions if they exceed the law, but so should their opponents.

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Originally Posted by LDAHL

At what point does stalking and harassing ICE agents in a hotel become illegal?

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My County has a regulation about noise. I presume other places do as well.

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9.06.040 Noise disturbances.
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to make or cause to be made any loud or unreasonable noise between the hours of 10:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m. Noise shall be deemed to be unreasonable when it disturbs, injures, or endangers the peace or health of another or when it endangers the health, safety, or welfare of the community. Any such noise shall be considered to be a public nuisance and an unlawful noise disturbance.

B. It shall be unlawful for any person to make or cause to be made frequent, repetitive, or continuous noise from the discharge of a firearm between sunset and sunrise. Any such noise shall be considered to be a public nuisance and an unlawful noise disturbance.

C. It shall be unlawful for any person to make or cause to be made any of the following loud or unreasonable noises at any time. Such noise shall be deemed to be unreasonable when it disturbs, injures, or endangers the peace or health of another or when it endangers the health, safety, or welfare of the community. The following noises shall be considered to be a public nuisance and an unlawful noise disturbance regardless of the time of day:

1. Frequent, repetitive, or continuous noise made by any animal which unreasonably disturbs or interferes with the peace, comfort, and repose of property owners or possessors, except that such sounds made by animal shelters, or commercial kennels, veterinary hospitals, pet shops, or pet kennels licensed under and in compliance with applicable regulations shall be exempt from this subsection. Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, if the owner or other person having custody of the animal cannot, with reasonable inquiry, be located by the investigating officer, or if the animal is a repeat violator of this subsection, the animal shall be impounded by the animal control officer or his designee, subject to redemption in the manner provided by SJCC 6.08.113;

2. The frequent, repetitive or continuous sounding of any horn or siren attached to a motor vehicle except as a warning of danger or specifically permitted or required by law;

3. The creation of frequent, repetitive, or continuous noise in connection with the starting, operation, repair, rebuilding, or testing of any motor vehicle, motorcycle, or off-highway vehicle so as to unreasonably disturb or interfere with the peace, comfort, and repose of owners or possessors of real property;

4. The creation of frequent, repetitive, or continuous noise by use of a musical instrument, whistle, sound amplifier, stereo, radio, television, or other device capable of reproducing sound so as to unreasonably disturb or interfere with the peace, comfort, and repose of owners or possessors of real property;

5. Sound from a motor vehicle audio system, such as a radio, tape player or compact disc player, which is operated at such a volume that it is plainly audible by a person of normal hearing at a distance of 75 feet or more from the vehicle itself and lasts more than 30 seconds; or

6. Sound from portable audio equipment, such as a radio, tape player or compact disc player, which is operated at such a volume that it is plainly audible by a person of normal hearing at a distance of 75 feet or more from the source of the sound and lasts for more than 30 seconds. (Ord. 23-2002 § 4)

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Yeah, I thought about the noise regulations. But those pesky misdemeanor level laws are nothing when you’re doing the Lord’s work.

Is it likely cops there would actually come to investigate the noise and do something to shut it down? In St. Louis that would be laughed at, Such a low level crime is not worth anyone’s time to confront.

As to "doing the Lord's work" I'm really grateful that some people are examining their conscience and doing what they feel is right.

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

Yeah, I thought about the noise regulations. But those pesky misdemeanor level laws are nothing when youÂ’re doing the LordÂ’s work.

but is it likely cops there would actually come to investigate the noise and do something to shut it down? In St. Louis that would be laughed at, Such a low level crime is not worth anyoneÂ’s time to confront.

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I wonder if the response to such an organized campaign of harassment would be different if it were directed at bankers or abortionists or any other group.

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Originally Posted by Tybee

As to "doing the Lord's work" I'm really grateful that some people are examining their conscience and doing what they feel is right.

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I support entirely legal protesting in these United States. I think it’s a good thing to exercise that right. I’ve said that many times on this forum.

I’m not keen on many mob actions, tho, ‘cause that can go sideways quickly.

So I do not support people always doing what they feel is right because their feelings may guide them to do some really ugly stuff. (Like that Mangione guy). Rob seemed enchanted with Mangione‘s action so I do not think Rob has an especially fine conscious in moral matters.

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Originally Posted by LDAHL

I wonder if the response to such an organized campaign of harassment would be different if it were directed at bankers or abortionists or any other group.

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HA! Bankers and abortionists are dealing with individuals who want their services! ICE is not wanted OBVIOUSLY.

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Originally Posted by LDAHL

I wonder if the response to such an organized campaign of harassment would be different if it were directed at bankers or abortionists or any other group.

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If we are talking about what if scenarios, I'd like to see a few dozen billion dollars of my tax money used to solve the homeless issues, rather than rounding up the the guys outside of Home Depot who want to work, even if it's a day job. At least in my neighborhood it's a bigger issue than immigration or protesters disturbing the peace by banging pots and pans.

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Originally Posted by frugal-one

HA! Bankers and abortionists are dealing with individuals who want their services! ICE is not wanted OBVIOUSLY.

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Unless you happen to object to people living here illegally.

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Originally Posted by Rogar

If we are talking about what if scenarios, I'd like to see a few dozen billion dollars of my tax money used to solve the homeless issues, rather than rounding up the the guys outside of Home Depot who want to work, even if it's a day job. At least in my neighborhood it's a bigger issue than immigration or protesters disturbing the peace by banging pots and pans.

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My experience working with housing issues is that it is one of those problems that can’t be solved simply with money. NIMBY zoning is one obstacle. The legal and administrative issues around people with mental health or drug issues are particularly tricky. Look at those people freezing to death in New York recently.

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Originally Posted by LDAHL

My experience working with housing issues is that it is one of those problems that can’t be solved simply with money. NIMBY zoning is one obstacle. The legal and administrative issues around people with mental health or drug issues are particularly tricky. Look at those people freezing to death in New York recently.

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I really don't have a good solution, but it seems like with the many billions allocated to ICE there could be improvements with a similar amount for the homeless. Maybe someone wiser than me would know more. And there couldmprobably be a dialog about whether non-criminal illegal immigrants or people living on the streets is the bigger social or safety issue.

My brother retired from social services after thirty years in a county with the state's mental institution. His story was that sometime around the Reagan era there were cutbacks for those sorts of institutions and a large percentage of the patients were relocated to half-way houses or pushed out on the streets. And that was the start of the homeless issues. That's probably not the whole story, but part of it is that with a lot of homeless people the issue isn't entirely housing, but the need for dependence rehabilitation, transportation, job skills, or professional help with mental illnesses.

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Originally Posted by LDAHL

Unless you happen to object to people living here illegally.

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The crowds and protests speak for how much ICE is valued or wanted!

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Originally Posted by frugal-one

The crowds and protests speak for how much ICE is valued or wanted!

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I think that actually speaks to how easily certain people can be encouraged by politicians to act emotionally rather than rationally, while actively creating the environment necessary to exploit the predictable reactions.

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Originally Posted by Rogar

I really don't have a good solution, but it seems like with the many billions allocated to ICE there could be improvements with a similar amount for the homeless. Maybe someone wiser than me would know more. And there couldmprobably be a dialog about whether non-criminal illegal immigrants or people living on the streets is the bigger social or safety issue.

My brother retired from social services after thirty years in a county with the state's mental institution. His story was that sometime around the Reagan era there were cutbacks for those sorts of institutions and a large percentage of the patients were relocated to half-way houses or pushed out on the streets. And that was the start of the homeless issues. That's probably not the whole story, but part of it is that with a lot of homeless people the issue isn't entirely housing, but the need for dependence rehabilitation, transportation, job skills, or professional help with mental illnesses.

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My great-grandfather was committed by his family to an institution--Willard Asylum. People who just couldn't cut it in society were sent there--if they were mentally ill, alcoholic (my grandfather), jobless (my grandfather), or even if they had a hard time making it because they spoke a different language. It is hard to think about people being institutionalized. My great grandfather lived there for 25 years until his death at 74 years old. There was a book written about Willard Asylum--The Lives They Left Behind.

Was my great-grandfather better off at Willard Asylum than he would have been homeless in NYC? His grandson, my father, died homeless in NYC. Who fared worse? I would say my father.

My great aunt tried to commit suicide and also stab my great uncle in the back with a kitchen knife. She was declared incompetent and died in the state hospital years later. I vaguely remember my mother taking me to visit her when I was vary small and the conditions were horrid. What ever can be imagined from the movies, that was it. I have told my cousin and brother that I don't even like to talk about it. It one of those memories that sticks with you.

I'd like to think with modern medicine she could have been helped. Or in modern times would she have been turned out some day on the streets? To return to that sort of institutionalization is unacceptable. The point is that some people need professional help with both addiction and mental health and in what ever respect, we're not doing a very good job of it. When the Llama offers me total enlightenment I might know how to help, but some of it might involve institutions of some sort.

Maybe getting back slightly on topic, I recall a homeland security budget of 160 billion. Some of that was probably good. But the part of flooding cities with well equipped ICE agents might have benefited society more by working on another big societal problem. I think the WSJ said that once the border had been virtually shut down, Trump should have backed off on his aggressive measures.

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Originally Posted by Rogar

I think the WSJ said that once the border had been virtually shut down, Trump should have backed off on his aggressive measures.

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I agree with that. But that's not the Trump way. He has to turn everything into a show of power.

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Originally Posted by catherine

I agree with that. But that's not the Trump way. He has to turn everything into a show of power.

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Surely you dont mean law enforcement should NOT deport those here with orders from immigration courts to leave and others here without legal permission. Barak Obama deported 3.1 million people during his 8 years in office which is nearly the same rate of deportation as Trump administration’s 400,000 deported in a year.

Donald had better step it up or he will barely match the Obama record. And Trump is using the same tools, ICE agents and Tom Holman.

Do you really think those who have been ordered to leave should just continue to stay in our country, ignoring lawful orders? Should Dr. Ian Roberts ( my touchstone illegal immigrant!) continue to head up the Des Moines Public school system, continue his lying, feloning, resisting court orders? Joe Biden’s courts ordered Roberts out. But Joe couldn’t make it happen, he was ineffectual.

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

Surely you dont mean law enforcement should NOT deport those here with orders from immigration courts to leave and others here without legal permission. Barak Obama deported 3.1 million people during his 8 years in office which is nearly the same rate of deportation as Trump administration’s 400,000 deported in a year.

Donald had better step it up or he will barely match the Obama record. And Trump is using the same tools, ICE agents and Tom Holman.

Do you really think those who have been ordered to leave should just continue to stay in our country, ignoring lawful orders? Should Dr. Ian Roberts ( my touchstone illegal immigrant!) continue to head up the Des Moines Public school system, continue his lying, feloning, resisting court orders? Joe Biden’s courts ordered Roberts out. But Joe couldn’t make it happen, he was ineffectual.

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Of course I don't believe that criminals should stay. I am against the tactics--the broad sweep of profiling and instilling fear into the families that are here legally--either with green cards or as actual citizens--just because they're brown. The fear that is being generated in cities (Democratics ones) merely to the end of political grandstanding.

Actually, I just spent the last 20+ minutes watching this NYT interview with Ruben Gallego, who, frankly, I never heard of until I read a Nate Silver report on the Democrats who have had great track records on winning elections. If you can watch it without a paywall, watch it. This guy is right up my alley in terms of representing the party I would like the Democrats to return to. He stresses the importance of national security by securing the borders but absolutely feels racial profiling is a bridge too far, and that the Republicans will lose the Latin and Black headway they made in the last election.

Overall, this guy is awesome. First blush, I'd vote for him if he ran for President. I like everything he said about what's gone wrong with the Democratic party.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/20/o...dability.htmlv

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Originally Posted by catherine

Of course I don't believe that criminals should stay. I am against the tactics--the broad sweep of profiling and instilling fear into the families that are here legally--either with green cards or as actual citizens--just because they're brown. The fear that is being generated in cities (Democratics ones) merely to the end of political grandstanding.

Actually, I just spent the last 20+ minutes watching this NYT interview with Ruben Gallego, who, frankly, I never heard of until I read a Nate Silver report on the Democrats who have had great track records on winning elections. If you can watch it without a paywall, watch it. This guy is right up my alley in terms of representing the party I would like the Democrats to return to. He stresses the importance of national security by securing the borders but absolutely feels racial profiling is a bridge too far, and that the Republicans will lose the Latin and Black headway they made in the last election.

Overall, this guy is awesome. First blush, I'd vote for him if he ran for President. I like everything he said about what's gone wrong with the Democratic party.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/20/o...dability.htmlv

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Ok, I accept your opinion as reasonable.

I’ll reframe it as we should deport everyone who’s here illegally, but be kinder and gentler and doing that.

I am not limiting my wish for deportation to “criminals “only. And the fear and intimidation is useful in getting one 1.6 million people to self deport. I think that’s an unfortunate but useful tactic.

There’s a is a certain amount of show going on with ICE tactics, unnecessary show. We can debate how much actual force is needed to detain those being deported but I’m convinced that some force is needed when lawful orders are not obeyed.

But I agree that Trump is losing the public relations game so he needs to watch it. Just like Israel was losing the PR game the last six months of the conflict in Palestine. The public tide turns.

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

The public tide turns.

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Yes, because generally people are kind and compassionate. When they sniff out wanton cruelty, they'll call it out. That impulse may be compassion, or it may be fear that they will be the next target. If you don't put checks on power, history has shown that anyone can be erased.

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Originally Posted by LDAHL

Unless you happen to object to people living here illegally.

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No rational person wants ICE here whether they are legal or not. We don’t need or want masked armed thugs grabbing people off the streets, breaking into homes without warrants or shooting people dead!

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Originally Posted by Alan

I think that actually speaks to how easily certain people can be encouraged by politicians to act emotionally rather than rationally, while actively creating the environment necessary to exploit the predictable reactions.

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Sounds like when trump called his minions to invade the capital NOT a rebellion against masked, armed thugs… gestapo or secret police, obsconding with or killing citizens on a whim!

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Originally Posted by frugal-one

Sounds like when trump called his minions to invade the capital NOT a rebellion against masked, armed thugs… gestapo or secret police, obsconding with or killing citizens on a whim!

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I'm guessing that if in the course of your worklife you had to deal with scores of random people videotaping your every movement and using that to identify you and your family while repeatedly calling you fascist and gestapo thugs you'd probably wear a mask too, if not for your own safety but certainly for the safety of your family. Dontcha think?
I'm also guessing that if in the course of your normal day you were followed, yelled at and attacked by groups of angry harridans each and every day while assigned to jurisdictions where local emergency services personnel were forbidden to cooperate or help you in the event of trouble, then be accused of killing citizens on a whim, you might be a little touchy too.

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Originally Posted by Alan

I'm guessing that if in the course of your worklife you had to deal with scores of random people videotaping your every movement and using that to identify you and your family while repeatedly calling you fascist and gestapo thugs you'd probably wear a mask too, if not for your own safety but certainly for the safety of your family. Dontcha think?
I'm also guessing that if in the course of your normal day you were followed, yelled at and attacked by groups of angry harridans each and every day while assigned to jurisdictions where local emergency services personnel were forbidden to cooperate or help you in the event of trouble, then be accused of killing citizens on a whim, you might be a little touchy too.

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This did not happen during other administrations (Biden and Obama) that used ICE. The barbaric tactics that are used by this administration is what is causing melee!

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Originally Posted by frugal-one

This did not happen during other administrations (Biden and Obama) that used ICE.

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Yes, for some reason people weren't nearly as concerned about ICE activity in communities located in sanctuary jurisdictions and had much less trouble getting them to honor ICE detainers during those administrations. For the life of me I can't come up with a rational reason why.

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Originally Posted by Alan

Yes, for some reason people weren't nearly as concerned about ICE activity in communities located in sanctuary jurisdictions and had much less trouble getting them to honor ICE detainers during those administrations. For the life of me I can't come up with a rational reason why.

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ICE now = Masks, intruding places without warrants, detaining people of color (on sight .. citizens or not) with no reason (ex. hispanic police officer in his vehicle with his children detained for no reason)…. barbaric tactics not done previously. Go figure, people are upset!

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Originally Posted by frugal-one

Good for you Rob. Glad you have not lost your mojo!

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Thank You! While it is true that I am more cautious these days, and have less time, at least I am willing to squeeze in SOMETHING. I owe it to all those murdered in the Holocaust and all those treated horrificly here. Rob

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Originally Posted by Rogar

I appreciate the efforts anyone takes to speak out or demonstrate against ICE. Their tactics are not acceptable, and the public outcry actually seems to be making a difference.

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Thank You, Rogar. Rob

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

I support entirely legal protesting in these United States. I think it’s a good thing to exercise that right. I’ve said that many times on this forum.

I’m not keen on many mob actions, tho, ‘cause that can go sideways quickly.

So I do not support people always doing what they feel is right because their feelings may guide them to do some really ugly stuff. (Like that Mangione guy). Rob seemed enchanted with Mangione‘s action so I do not think Rob has an especially fine conscious in moral matters.

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Enchanted, huh? Not at all. It was cold blooded murder. But I do understand the anger leading to such actions and I do believe lives were saved. Rob

okay----ELECT----Ian Roberts-------IWAH Govverner. Why not? Are you a rayciss or sumthin'?

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Originally Posted by catherine

Of course I don't believe that criminals should stay. I am against the tactics--the broad sweep of profiling and instilling fear into the families that are here legally--either with green cards or as actual citizens--just because they're brown. The fear that is being generated in cities (Democratics ones) merely to the end of political grandstanding.

Actually, I just spent the last 20+ minutes watching this NYT interview with Ruben Gallego, who, frankly, I never heard of until I read a Nate Silver report on the Democrats who have had great track records on winning elections. If you can watch it without a paywall, watch it. This guy is right up my alley in terms of representing the party I would like the Democrats to return to. He stresses the importance of national security by securing the borders but absolutely feels racial profiling is a bridge too far, and that the Republicans will lose the Latin and Black headway they made in the last election.

Overall, this guy is awesome. First blush, I'd vote for him if he ran for President. I like everything he said about what's gone wrong with the Democratic party.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/20/o...dability.htmlv

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One reason I'm loving Arizona these days - our two Democratic Senators - Mark Kelly and Ruben Gallego. They both are awesome and defiant against the Dictatorship. Our high ranking elected officials in Arizona are mostly Democrat, we kicked Kari Lake to the curb, and we in Arizona have moral high ground for once. Much resistance against the Facsist Regime here, building by the day. Rob

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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

Enchanted, huh? Not at all. It was cold blooded murder. But I do understand the anger leading to such actions and I do believe lives were saved. Rob

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WTAF.

How the heck were "lives saved" by Mangione's cold blooded murderous actions? Is Tim Noel leading United Healthcare substantially differently than Brian Thompson was?