+1000Originally Posted by Florence
+1000
Not even looking at the site yet. (lalalalalala)
(haven't had insurance in 4 years now - saved minimum of $30,000 in monthly premiums (not counting deductibles) by being healthy, good luck, and a lot of prayer that the kids wouldn't impale themselves in a tree - that really happened to our oldest when he was 5 and we had good insurance)
Looking forward to having insurance again but I can wait a few days or months until the sites are sorted out.
Float On: My "Happy Place" is on my little kayak in the coves of Table Rock Lake.
If I may, two things stand out for me here.
A. Given everything you have mentioned here, perhaps you can understand why it's so important to have some humanity thrown your way, in this case the ACA, and
B. I've read online over 70% of Americans do not want the government shut down. So at the moment anyway, the Republicans look worse. If you were to mention the numbers polling for Americans favoring the ACA, the numbers would not look all that great, I admit this. The Obama Administration has done a piss poor job of educating the general public of the ins and outs of ObamaCare and for that I do hold them accountable. It's almost like he thought Hey, here's access to insurance, now leave me be and enjoy it. That message works for me as I have never really believed in any country anyway, and I've stated before citizenship to me is all about what's in it for me as far as a social welfare, what's the tax rate, and how much debt is there per capita.
When you think this way, you are not going to look down on something like ObamaCare.
Unfortunately for society, most Americans do not think this way and I will admit the reason I do is partially due to the fact that I was raised to see things this way, something for which I am very grateful.
Whether or not I leave, I'm not yet sure. Even if ObamaCare pans out I may leave anyway so that I don't have to work longer than I care to. To me, there is nothing at all wrong in doing such, to do so shows a great deal of common sense. But then again, iike I said, I was raised this way. Rob
I don't think that's unfortunate at all. We get that for you it's all about how much Free Cheese you can force others to buy you. But I'm glad the whole country doesn't think that way.
No, its not about Free Cheese. It's about how much does society care about human life.....but I grant most Americans don't think this way. To get this kind of thinking you need to go to Western Europe, or to a lesser degree Canada, but I understand things are changing in Canada these days. Maybe a better example would be Australia and New England for English speaking examples. To care about the collective society as a whole is something America is not very good at overall, and there's nothing wrong for calling it on that. At least not in my view. Rob
Came back to add - the "Free Cheese" as you call it - you would be eligible for it, too. And without the stigma to it that it has in America. In Western Europe this is not considered welfare, but rather the way a civilized society does things. And I have agreed with this thinking from about the age of 12 onwards. Rob
I still don't get the way some people in the U.S. think universal care or any program a step towards it is some novel social experiment that will never pan out. Universal care is the norm in almost all developed countries except for the U.S. -
http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...-on-it/259153/
The U.S. stands alone on issues like having 5% of the worlds population yet 25% of the world's prison population and health care costs that are many times higher than all other countries, universal care or not.
I just don't get why there isn't more empathy in the U.S. for lower income people instead of this lock them up and no free (or even marginally affordable) health care for you kind of attitude.
Well Rob I guess it was the different way we were raised. When I was a kid I was always expected to work and pull my own weight. I was told that if things didn't turn out the way that you had planned. Maybe you didn't plan very well. You saved for a rainy day and you invested your money for it to grow. We were charitable, but never expected anyone to take care of us. If someone was doing better than us, good for them. We didn't expect them to give part of their earnings to us.
You make choices and you have to live with them. No one else is out to get you. And no one should be expected to take care of you.
And we even had guns at an early age and except for a few birds, rabbits, and squirrels, no one got hurt.
You state that your only here because of what you can get. That's the free cheese. You have made a choice in your employment. But want others to subsidize you. I understand it, but don't understand your claiming the moral high ground when you just want someone else to pay your way.
I don't think that's the case at all. Everyone I know believes in providing some kind of assistance. Of course, I don't know everyone, so there very well may be those kinds of people out there, but I don't think the view is prevalent.
The difference I was alluding to (and the one Rob seems to have no problem with) is the entitlement mentality, i.e. the degree to which people who want things but can't afford them should expect others to pay for them. It's one thing to look at the system in the abstract and say "how can we design this so it works for everyone." Few people would object to that. More people object when they perceive others to be manipulating the system for personal benefit. I personally prefer a system where people are motivated to be productive, not just see how much they can extract from others whenever they can't pay for what they want. I think that has been the national character for some time. We don't cotton to freeloaders.
Off the current vein of conversation, but here is something that happened this morning in my office that has me shaking my head:
A car has been disabled in our parking lot for a few days. One of the men who volunteer here talked to the owner yesterday, and he said he was working on getting it out of the parking lot. Ok. No biggie.
Today the owner came by the office to profusely apologize for the car still being here. He was very polite and well-spoken. He said this couldn't have come at a worse time. His employer just laid him and 2-3 other co-workers off last week because he was freaked out that he would "have to provide them ALL health care benefits." So he just cut them all loose. This poor man has a 2-1/2 yr old and now, a car with a cracked head---and no job. All because his boss wouldn't listen to explanations how it really works.
So...yes, the administration has done a poor job of educating the public how ACA is supposed to work, AND, there are too many talking heads out there giving anyone who will listen bad information.
Last edited by KayLR; 10-1-13 at 6:48pm.
My therapist told me the way to achieve true inner peace is to finish what I start. So far today, I have finished two bags of M&Ms and a chocolate cake. I feel better already!
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