Cop asked to leave cafe because he made a customer "uncomfortable"

[Tradd]

I just saw this article posted to one of the firearms forums I frequent and immediately thought of Rob. I suspect he would approve.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i..._southeas.html

I'm not surprised where it happened - Portland, in a vegan coffee shop, no less. It's a 4 year old story, but seems timely with the current happenings.

[creaker]

I'm waiting to see if the "no politicking" signs go back up in businesses in my hometown of Portsmouth, NH as the primaries ramp up again. There were incidents last time around that made candidates unwelcome in some of the eating establishments there.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I just saw this article posted to one of the firearms forums I frequent and immediately thought of Rob. I suspect he would approve.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i..._southeas.html

I'm not surprised where it happened - Portland, in a vegan coffee shop, no less. It's a 4 year old story, but seems timely with the current happenings.

I have mixed feelings about this one - interestingly enough, too, I have lived in Portland, OR, for 5.5 years before and I can see this happening there.

Recently I had lunch at a mostly vegetarian cafe here in Phoenix and it was past the lunch rush and the cafe was mostly empty. Just as the counter person set my Greek Salad in front of me, a Phoenix Police Officer walked in and went to the counter to order and ending out sitting close to me. He did not look at me nor hassle me nor cause any issues but you'd better well believe I was uncomfortable and that my meal experience was ruined. Ever since witnessing the Phoenix police illegally and brutally assaulting my Guatemalan neighbors I will never trust the police again. Trust towards the police has been permanently severed for me and I see them now as potential thugs (not all are thugs, no, my point is that some engage in this behavior and since I have witnessed it I can't deny it) to be avoided at all costs and not to believe anything they may say. So, given this was my frame of mind, of course my meal was ruined. I was going to get up and leave but no, I'll be damned if I get up and leave due to a cop. Not happening, my rights matter.

All that said, I understand that this cop has rights too, and he did nothing out of line during his time at the cafe. Which brings me to a point about American police I thought of this morning and that I have not brought up on this board yet -

One big huge problem with the American police is - THEY HAVE A REPUTATION WHICH PRECEDES THEM. No one has mentioned this yet but this is why I was so unnerved in the cafe and why my meal was ruined even though the cop did nothing out of line. I'd be willing to bet this is a two way street, too. To cops, I'd be wiling to bet that lower income neighborhoods have a reputation that precedes them. Of course my neighbors and I feel justified in our views of the police, and I'd be willing to bet that the cops feel justified with their take, too.

I don't know of any way to fix this - other than video and lawsuits against them when they cross the line. And next time, I think I'd be best off leaving the cafe.....It's giving them too much to let them ruin my meal due to the rep they have, that they represent, by their mere presence. But I'd never ask for a cop to leave, either - I'm afraid such could be used against me somehow. Portland, OR, and the way people tend to think there is a bit different from Phoenix, AZ and the way people tend to think here, too. I do remember during my time in Portland I was not so afraid of the police - they honestly seemed to have some respect and more importantly, they seemed to know when to stop and not cross the line. This is all I ask for from the police - don't cross the line into illegal behavior, make some commitment towards this with pre-determined amounts of settlement money for violations, and then I might be able, after several years at a minimum, to extend them some benefit of the doubt and at least neutrality.

Witnessing my neighbors assaulted for no reason by the police really cemented my views of law enforcement. Brutally breaking the law like that in plain view? Any thinking person would never see the police the same way again in my book. As things are now, at this moment, in regards to law enforcement vs. the general public, I don't see much hope for change overall. Rob

I came back to add something. I'm going to alter my stance somewhat about not having much hope for change overall - I do see hope for more victims standing up to the police and going after huge settlements for illegal assualts/attacks by the police. Eventually I believe the money involved will be so great that change will have to begin to happen as the payoffs earned (and the global reputation earned via the large payoffs) will become unsustainable. So yes - I do see hope but not right away.

[Simplemind]

http://www.oregonlive.com/dining/ind...nounces_c.html

I have never known a business in Portland or the surrounding areas that didn't support and encourage law enforcement to be their customers. I have known businesses that discriminated to be shunned.

[Packy]

Just looked at the photo, and I would not want to patronize that business, or be associated with Those People in any way. Too unsavory. The cop probably went in there to get coffee, just to see what was going on, and the guy kicked him out because he realized it. Plus, the guy was prolly in a bad mood on account of business being slow.

[dmc]

I have mixed feelings about this one - interestingly enough, too, I have lived in Portland, OR, for 5.5 years before and I can see this happening there.

Recently I had lunch at a mostly vegetarian cafe here in Phoenix and it was past the lunch rush and the cafe was mostly empty. Just as the counter person set my Greek Salad in front of me, a Phoenix Police Officer walked in and went to the counter to order and ending out sitting close to me. He did not look at me nor hassle me nor cause any issues but you'd better well believe I was uncomfortable and that my meal experience was ruined. Ever since witnessing the Phoenix police illegally and brutally assaulting my Guatemalan neighbors I will never trust the police again. Trust towards the police has been permanently severed for me and I see them now as potential thugs (not all are thugs, no, my point is that some engage in this behavior and since I have witnessed it I can't deny it) to be avoided at all costs and not to believe anything they may say. So, given this was my frame of mind, of course my meal was ruined. I was going to get up and leave but no, I'll be damned if I get up and leave due to a cop. Not happening, my rights matter.

All that said, I understand that this cop has rights too, and he did nothing out of line during his time at the cafe. Which brings me to a point about American police I thought of this morning and that I have not brought up on this board yet -

One big huge problem with the American police is - THEY HAVE A REPUTATION WHICH PRECEDES THEM. No one has mentioned this yet but this is why I was so unnerved in the cafe and why my meal was ruined even though the cop did nothing out of line. I'd be willing to bet this is a two way street, too. To cops, I'd be wiling to bet that lower income neighborhoods have a reputation that precedes them. Of course my neighbors and I feel justified in our views of the police, and I'd be willing to bet that the cops feel justified with their take, too.

I don't know of any way to fix this - other than video and lawsuits against them when they cross the line. And next time, I think I'd be best off leaving the cafe.....It's giving them too much to let them ruin my meal due to the rep they have, that they represent, by their mere presence. But I'd never ask for a cop to leave, either - I'm afraid such could be used against me somehow. Portland, OR, and the way people tend to think there is a bit different from Phoenix, AZ and the way people tend to think here, too. I do remember during my time in Portland I was not so afraid of the police - they honestly seemed to have some respect and more importantly, they seemed to know when to stop and not cross the line. This is all I ask for from the police - don't cross the line into illegal behavior, make some commitment towards this with pre-determined amounts of settlement money for violations, and then I might be able, after several years at a minimum, to extend them some benefit of the doubt and at least neutrality.

Witnessing my neighbors assaulted for no reason by the police really cemented my views of law enforcement. Brutally breaking the law like that in plain view? Any thinking person would never see the police the same way again in my book. As things are now, at this moment, in regards to law enforcement vs. the general public, I don't see much hope for change overall. Rob

I came back to add something. I'm going to alter my stance somewhat about not having much hope for change overall - I do see hope for more victims standing up to the police and going after huge settlements for illegal assualts/attacks by the police. Eventually I believe the money involved will be so great that change will have to begin to happen as the payoffs earned (and the global reputation earned via the large payoffs) will become unsustainable. So yes - I do see hope but not right away.

What do you think about people that feel the same way towards Blacks, Hispanics, gays?

[razz]

Not sure about the need to post this old story on Easter weekend. That said, I wave to police as they drive by, nod a greeting if I see them in coffee shops or on the street and receive a wave or nod back - the same as if I was greeting anyone else during my day.
"What you hold in thought, you bring into your experience" has been my policy and practice. I would lose substantially in my life if I stayed angry at anyone and projected that anger onto others. I choose not to have that loss but YMMV.

[LDAHL]

"We would prefer that there be some practical alternative to police like community forums for restorative justice, for example."

This is how civilizations fail.

[Alan]

"We would prefer that there be some practical alternative to police like community forums for restorative justice, for example."

This is how civilizations fail.

Sounds like pure democracy in action to me, although pure democracy is best described as tyranny of the majority.

[Weston]

What do you think about people that feel the same way towards Blacks, Hispanics, gays?

Well put dmc.