Whether you think it makes sense or not, they proved quite capable during the Portland Mall shooting, at the school shooting in Pearl MS and at the Appalachian School of Law in 2002 as well as several others I'd have to look up (if it weren't a sign of mental illness of course).Originally Posted by bunnys
In each of those cases, the shooter was stopped by armed civilians well before police could respond.
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein
You're arguing a different point than I made.
I don't understand that you're referring to regarding having a mental illness.
Sorry, it's a reference to something much earlier in this discussion.
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein
It's all the same point The point at issue is that armed cilvilians who are there at the time of an assault are more effective responders than police who take longer to get there.
No, it's not. Trained is not a synonym for quick. In fact, it's almost an antonym.
Why do you believe that all these heavily armed citizens would know what the hell they were doing when said mass shooting went down, anyway?
If no one had assault weapons and 160 round clips or drums whatever they are called, no one in the general public would need to be armed so as to be ready to take down mass shooters. Further, if shooters had to stop to reload after say, 5 rounds, unarmed citizens could jump the shooter while he stopped to reload before the shooting became a mass shooting.
So, if we could just outlaw all assault weapons and semi and fully automatic weapons and their ammunition and make those who had them turn them in to the government or risk imprisonment if caught with said weapons, we would nearly completely eliminate all attempts at mass shootings.
Man, that would be great!
It seems that in each of the examples I cited, armed citizens knew exactly what they were doing. In each case they stopped an active shooter without firing a shot simply by showing armed resistance.
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein
There have been 100 shooting deaths in the US since Sandy Hook. I think that is only one week. Welcome to the US gun capital of the world. When will we learn guns kill.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2348466.html
It's not an antonym, people train all the time so their response times are quicker, but don't try and obfuscate the point- response times by police, however well trained they may be, allow way too much time for really bad things to happen. Only people who are prepared to deal with the issue on the scene are in a position to make much difference.
My guess is "assault rifles" aren't the culprit in most of those. How do we fix the social issues that lead to these shootings? You are never going to get a total ban like Japan. The bad guys will always be up to no good. What are the good guys to do?
People interested in data could track down the recentish FBI reports on active shooter scenarios, which have informed modern training curriculas. Yossarian is spot on - emergency response times from off-site are simply too long to make much, if any, difference in how most of these events play out.
I'm not trying to obfuscate my own point. You have read the point I made and decided to instead purposefully ignore my point to make your own unrelated point.
There is nothing in the original advertisement you posted that even hints that the reason armed citizens are presumed to be better at taking down mass shooters is because of response times. Instead, the ad implies that both armed citizens and police are equal options for stopping the violence but that the police are just woefully inept even with their bigger guns.
The fact is that if would-be mass shooters didn't have access to assault weapons and their attendant ammo, it wouldn't matter if the citizenry was armed because there would be very few, if any mass-shooting attempts anyway. But I already said that.
This discussion is so much bickering.
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