Gabby Giffords Gun Violence Initiative

[Alan]

I hear all the 'right' words, concern for mentally ill, etc..., yet, I also hear strong defense for ALLOWING people to carry guns to political rallies. Some here INSIST it's their god given right to carry a LOADED GUN to a town hall or other political rally in order to 'remind' our leaders just who is in charge. Kind of a disconnect, don't you think? And I find the hand wringing of those who defend this ridiculous assertion rather phony. And in my opinion, these who think this practice is hunky dory are the very ones who SHOULDN'T have guns, at all!

I guess some of us just look at things differently. If you accept the premise that we all have the right to self defense, you probably wouldn't think in terms of being ALLOWED to exercise that right only at specific venues. I think that's where the disconnect really is, in that some folks want to play fast and loose with the rights guaranteed by the constitution and the vast majority of our states.

In my mind, you either have a right or you don't. Location is irrelevant.

[bUU]

Self-defense is a red herring for most of what is being discussed today. A semi-automatic weapon is not required for personal protection. A 30 round magazine clips is not required for personal protection. Personal protection doesn't require the ability to buy bullets (or guns, for that matter) anonymously.

What you have the right to do is indeed limited and subject to regulation, whether we're talking about free speech (yelling "fire" in a crowded theater), free exercise of religion (polygamy), freedom of the press (publishing top secret documents), or Second Amendment rights.

[Gregg]

I'm not even sure what is meant by "mental health care".

And I don't think many of us are any more sure than you are ANM. It is certainly one of the primary issues we have to address if we're really going to try to solve our gun violence problem. I was blasted by some a while back for suggesting there is a stigma associated with mental health issues that keeps people from seeking help. Some here are going to totally disagree with me, but I still think there is. Its time for us, as a society, to grow up. No one wants to suffer from mental illness any more than anyone wants to get cancer, but it happens. When it does the people who have it should be supported and encouraged to seek treatment just like cancer patients are. We should put little blue ribbons for OCD on all our yogurt containers and have road races raising money to cure depression and include bipolar care in every insurance plan and... No safety net is absolute, but if we take a more enlightened approach we are bound to end up helping a lot of people who could exhibit violent behavior BEFORE anything tragic happens.

Couple this with an economy that doesn't work for many of our young, and resulting anger, easy access to drugs and alcohol and guns and...

Exactly Rob. A general sense of hopelessness or of being disenfranchised can only have negative consequences and I think a lot of our younger generation are feeling that. Desperate times may call for desperate measures, but if the times didn't seem so desperate it might have a pretty profound effect in all kinds of ways.

[Gregg]

I hear all the 'right' words, concern for mentally ill, etc...

I think most of the people expressing concern for how our society deals with mental illness are sincere regardless of their stand on guns. We don't do a good job of taking care of that segment of our society and that's a shame. I'm glad its starting to come to light. Obviously we all wish it wouldn't take a Newtown event to get the ball rolling, but maybe there can be something positive to come out of that.

[Alan]

Self-defense is a red herring for most of what is being discussed today. A semi-automatic weapon is not required for personal protection. A 30 round magazine clips is not required for personal protection. Personal protection doesn't require the ability to buy bullets (or guns, for that matter) anonymously.

Actually, the right to self-defense is anything but a red herring as it was used in my response to another poster. Removing context in order to make a point is the real red herring.

[CathyA]

I didn't watch the entire You Tube video...........but it points out the huge difference between peaceful people and aggressive people. I swear, there's a real brain difference.
Judas Priest!!!
That's all I'm going to say. There will NEVER be a compromise among people like this. Never.

(Edited to add I didn't see the second page. My reply is in response to Peggy's last post).

[bUU]

Actually, the right to self-defense is anything but a red herring as it was used in my response to another poster. Removing context in order to make a point is the real red herring.

What Peggy wrote was about carrying a loaded gun into a government building, and carrying a loaded gun into a crowd. Self-defense absolutely is a red herring in those contexts.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I know this is not going to go over well, but I believe if we are absolutely sure of someone's guilt in matters like this (killing lots of people and being "crazy"), its time to remove them from our planet.
We spend too much money, time, energy on feeding, housing, guarding them. Let them go. They are a cancer and we must remove them. That wouldn't mean we aren't uncivilized, inhumane people. It would mean we see the reality of the situation clearly.

I can understand how someone could be pushed to seeing things this way.....the problem I see here though is we don't know what in the background of these folks perhaps pushed them over the edge into this kind of behavior.....I for myself would not want to live in such a society that was OK with pushing such people off the planet - to me this would lead to serious consideration of attempts at political asylum elsewhere as I would not want to be part of such a society and I don't care to live stateless in a refugee camp somewhere.....Personally, if what you suggest were to take place, it would be more than I consider acceptable - I would really marshal my resources and make an aggressive effort to (legally) get out of such a society. But I understand most will not go to this extreme of a level.....Rob

[bae]

What Peggy wrote was about carrying a loaded gun into a government building, and carrying a loaded gun into a crowd. Self-defense absolutely is a red herring in those contexts.

Why? Your assertion does not make it so.

I carry weapons into government offices almost every day. For reasons entirely to do with defense of self and others.

And I'm not sure why "crowds" diminish my interests in defense.

[larknm]

I'm with Mrs. M. Plus I think most mental health care is as flawed as the people carrying it out, which makes it dangerous, the more extreme the care, the more dangerous it can be. I became a therapist because I had seen such horrific abuses and thought things could be done more humanely, without the often-inherent power-tripping.