Obamacare, or, I might be up a creek w/o a paddle

[try2bfrugal]

True but then you are shifting the insurance cost from wealthy private businesses onto the taxpayer's. Making big business even greater wealth and increasing taxes for citizens and the deficit. All on the back of higher earners who cannot use the subsidies themselves, but get to see their premium's sky rocket as well as their taxes. And as more companies stop offering insurance coverage to their employees - or eliminating full time jobs or reducing hours to p/t once the employer mandate kicks in - the greater that tax burden increases. Add into that that the potential millions who will retire a decade or 2 early because they can get subsidized health insurance, as well as the younger people who choose not to work or just work p/t, and you increase that national debt and the requirement for more taxes. All the while doing nothing to control health insurance costs which will probably continue to rise now that dear old uncle Sam I'd footing the bill rather than big business for many.

Not all businesses are wealthy. In countries where the government is involved in providing medical care, health care costs are all lower than the U.S. All other countries, including those with universal and government supported health care have much lower health care costs than the U.S. Not a single country on planet Earth has higher health care costs than the U.S., though many have higher rated health care systems.

Check out these charts on health care costs in the U.S. compared to other countries -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...are-ludicrous/

Almost all other developed countries have some form of universal healthcare, many with more robust economies. Affordable health care isn't a failed social experiment. It is the way the rest of the develop world works.

[Spartana]

And luckily for you, you can now simply add the cost of your healthcare to my tab. Would it be out of place for me to ask that you exercise more and eat better, you know, positive steps to limit my liability?

Or maybe just mandate that people on medicaid look for a full time job - even a minimum wage job - in order to get medicaid. But Alan, it's time for you to come over to the dark side and dump your private health insurance and sign up for the low cost taxpayer supported VA like me. I may not believe it's right but I'll use it anyway :-) .Quit your job and become a poet like Bae.

[Spartana]

Actually can a person actually quit their job that has employer healthcare and sign up for the ACA or medicaid? I heard they couldn't but have never seen it written anywhere.

[Spartana]

Pretty much this kind of thinking that I am exhibiting here - this is very European kind of thinking and to a lesser degree Australian and New Zealand thinking - these countries have more of a "we" than a "me" mentality going on. I was about 12 wnen I decided for me personally it was going to be more "we" and not so much "me" - at least as far as basic human rights issues such as access to health care go. Rob

The difference is that healthcare is available to ALL people in those countries and ALL people pay taxes to support it. We don't have this with the ACA. I see this is highly discriminatory.

[Spartana]

Sadly, in FL it's not just income. My income is aboiut $500 a month but I have aqssets greate than $2,000 so I was turned down for Medicaid. For the foreseeable future I'll continue to not have access to jhealth care.

I be,sieve you can still apply for the subsidizes in states that don't have medicaid expansion and get all your medical insurance covered. That's what I read anyways.

[Spartana]

You still have never answered my question: So your point is that they are much better off with no health care and zero doctors than they are with free health care that includes some but not all doctors and hospitals as participating plan providers?

Well I'll answer :-) I personally feel that having medical care - even sub par or very basic care - is an absolute need for our society. I feel that it should be treated like public education - it may not be the greatest but even at a lower functioning level it is MUCH better to have in place.. Higher income earners can always opt for a private plan with more comprehensive care and access just like they do with private education. Of course I'm an advocate of universal or public healthcare for all just not a fan of obamacare - but better for some then nothing while worse for others.

[Spartana]

Not all businesses are wealthy. In countries where the government is involved in providing medical care, health care costs are all lower than the U.S. All other countries, including those with universal and government supported health care have much lower health care costs than the U.S. Not a single country on planet Earth has higher health care costs than the U.S., though many have higher rated health care systems.

Check out these charts on health care costs in the U.S. compared to other countries -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...are-ludicrous/

Almost all other developed countries have some form of universal healthcare, many with more robust economies. Affordable health care isn't a failed social experiment. It is the way the rest of the develop world works.

I agree. I think having universal care for all can be vastly less expensive. But we have a sort of a mish mash going on that leaves a lot of room for rampant increases for many as we see in the OP's original post. For example, the p/t people at TJ's, Home Depo, and other companies that are eliminating health insurance will be better off under the ACA yet their full time employees will be seeing some high cost increases.

[try2bfrugal]

I agree. I think having universal care for all can be vastly less expensive. But we have a sort of a mish mash going on that leaves a lot of room for rampant increases for many as we see in the OP's original post. For example, the p/t people at TJ's, Home Depo, and other companies that are eliminating health insurance will be better off under the ACA yet their full time employees will be seeing some high cost increases.

Why do you say the FT employees will be seeing cost increases because of the ACA? Health insurance rates have been increasing significantly every year lately, ACA or no ACA.

The Rand Corporation found that "While there have been some reports that the cost of individual policies may jump sharply under health reform, a RAND analysis of 10 states and the United States overall predicts that there will be no widespread premium increase in the individual health insurance market."

http://www.rand.org/news/press/2013/08/29/index1.html

[try2bfrugal]

Of course I'm an advocate of universal or public healthcare for all just not a fan of obamacare - but better for some then nothing while worse for others.

The issue is that there currently are no other choices. We can go forward or we can go backward on the health care front. The ACA provides insurance to 28 million people, most of whom are working adults or kids, with health insurance. It allows people with cancer to get insurance and health care even it they lost their jobs because they were too sick to work.

That cancer patient could be anyone of us, our parents or our kids next week or next year. I like knowing that I will always have health care whenever I might need it.

[try2bfrugal]

I be,sieve you can still apply for the subsidizes in states that don't have medicaid expansion and get all your medical insurance covered. That's what I read anyways.

Only if your income is above the Medicaid threshold levels. Otherwise Medicaid is not available in the states that opted out of Medicaid expansion. The federal government will pick up the tab for three years for Medicaid expansion, and 90% of the cost after that. There are few financial reasons for states not to expand Medicaid and help out their lowest income families. They are just playing politics with the health and lives of their lowest income earners at stake.

Related article on Medicaid Expansion -

http://www.webmd.com/health-insuranc...caid-expansion